Basic Praying Mantis

[CJ Max]

Hi, I am new to the forum.

I have a baic question about
the Praying Mantis style.

How many stances are there
in your Praying Mantis style?

Tell me one tell me all or
tell me the one you know.

CJ Max

[Taijimantis]

Tai Chi Praying Mantis has eight basic stances.

If I remember them all...

Kneeling horse
Foreword Square
Crane
Tai Chi
Cat

Aaaah! Mantis 108, Shaolin Mantis help!

[mantis108]

Brothers,

In Tai Chi Praying Mantis, we use 8 Basic stances

Horse stance
Hiking Stance (aka Bow and Arrow)
kneeling Stance
Riding Tiger/Cat Stance (Riding Tiger is with hips open and facing more to the side than a Cat stance)
Pole Stance or crane (single legged)
Reversed Bow ( I call it Tiger Taming stance)
Jabe rings Stance (aka twist stance)
Tai Chi (7 stars stance)

There is a form to train the eight basic stances. IMHO, TCPM uses these stance mainly; all other stances are variations of these. One of the reason which I began to train in TCPM was the the Eight Basic Stances (the form) is so systematically and logically put together the important concepts and technique of the style. System of thoughts is so clear and so logical that I am often at awe with the intelligence and wisdom of the masters. Also, I am a firm believer in footwork makes the punch (strike).

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[7kicks]

The 8 basic stances in wah lum
1. riding horse stance-say ping ma
2. hill climb horse stance-dun san ma
3. lady horse stance-lui gee ma
4. cat horse stance- doo ling ma
5. seven star horse stance- chut sing ma
6. crushed horse stance-bye ma
7. kneeling horse stance-gwai ma
8. butterfly horse stance- woo dip ma

These are taught in order as an excersise.

[CJ Max]

Taijimantis

Tai Chi Mantis - Eight basic stances.

Kneeling horse
Forward square
Crane
Tai Chi
Cat

In your fighting style is the Horse more important than the Cat or is the Cat more important than the Horse.

To me the Cat represents the original Praying Mantis stance which is the hands of the Mantis and the footwork of the Monkey, which is similar to what I know which is the Left Guard of Cat stance.

Any ideas all ideas are welcome just tell me the difference.

CJ Max

................................................

Mantis108

Tai Chi Mantis uses 8 stances.

1. Horse stance (Horse stance)
2. Bow stance (Hiking stance)
3. Low stance (Tiger taming stance)

3 plus 5 = 8

1. Cat stance (Riding tiger)
2. Crane stance (Pole stance)
3. Kneeling stance (Kneeling stance)
4. Tai Chi stance (7 star stance)
5. Twisted stance (Jade rings stance)

I am trying to establish a terminology that I understand as compared to the terminology you understand. As a result I created this different order of stances. As I understand them. Regarding the Praing Mantis I view everything from the Cat stance or Left Guard. To me the Cat stance is the number one stance. As you view it the Horse stance is the number one stance. As a result we have two different viewpoints. Cat verses Horse or Horse versus Cat.

To me the Horse stance, Low stance, and Bow stance are crystal clear. It represents shifting the Right horse forwards and backwards in fighting multiple opponents and single opponents. The way I understand it it's shifting the Horse to Bow and Low.

In regards to the Kneeling stance and Bow stance is it related to the Horse or Cat in the Tai Chi Mantis style.

Any information that you have to clear this up is appreciated.

CJ Max

.................................................

7kicks

Wah Lum Mantiss has eight basic stances.

1. Say ping ma (Riding horse stance)
Would this be a basic horse stance?
2. Dun san ma (Hill climbing horse stance)
Would this be a Bow stance or something else?
3. Lui gee ma (Lady horse stance)
Would this be the Low stance or something
else?

3 plus 5 = 8

1. Doo ling ma (Cat horse stance)
Would this be the Cat stance or the Left
Guard?
2. Bye ma (Crushed horse stance)
Would this be the Crane stance or something
else?
3. Gwai ma (Kneeling horse stance)
Would this be the Knelling stance or something
else?
4. Woo dip ma (Butterfly horse stance)
Would this be the Twisted stance or something
else?
5. Chut sing ma (Seven star horse stance)
Would this be Tai Chi stance or something
else?

I changed your order to my order because that's the way I understand the stances. At least some of the stances as far as I understand them. I am not entirely certain whether I understand all of the eight stances. Your terminology and my terminology are different. I am trying to use my terminology to understand your terminology. I hope that you can clear some of the stances up in relationship to the terms that we are using. I am not sure whether I am clearing the issues or confusing the issues. I will do my best to clear them out if I got them confused. I hope I did not get you confused.

CJ Max

[mantis108]

First and foremost, my views do not represent all TCPM schools. This is straightly my understanding of what was taught to me.

There are reasons which I listed the stances in that order.

1) the 8 Basic Stances form is divided into 3 segments. First segment contains 2 stance - Horse and Hiking. Second contains 2 stance - Kneeling and Riding Tiger/Cat (you might think of it 3 stances in a way). Final segment all the rest stance in that order.

2) This division is full of purposes. It articulates not from static stances POV. Rather, it introduces important concepts to novices and reminds adepts to capitalize on these concepts. For example, the second segment is to introduce the high and low planes. Advance, retreat, and turn 180 degree to and from a narrow base of support ( your endearing Cat stance).

3) The Horse stance is the mother of all stance and is introduced as the very first stance. It expresses the Tai Chi in TCPM. A relaxed upper torso with a firm base of support and lowered center of gravity articulates the idea of Ying/Yang. It also illustrates the maximum stride (distance between the feet) of individual(S). How to balance between mobility and stablity is through the understanding of the maximum stride. The Horse stance is also a qigong basic. The study is most benefit in many way.

4) Stances starts with linear concepts and motions (first segment) and ends with circular ones (final segment).

5) 8 Basic Stances form also introduces other tools such as reverse punch, Sun fist, Back Fist, Mantis Hooks, etc... and concepts like intercepting and slipping, etc...

All in all, stance training in TCMP is systematic and logical. It is needed to be logistic to help novices to grapse the important teachings as well as the training methodology. Like I always say the wisdom of the masters is just way too remarkable.

Hope this helps

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[8stepsifu]

But there are really more like 10. We have kneeling and where both feet are together but all the weight is on one side. These aren't called stances or drilled, but they are no less neccesary to do the movements that depend on them......For some reason, probably because of the ba gua, most styles seem to have 8 stances even if they aren't the same 8 stances.


It seems that the only difference between tai chi mantis and 8 step stances are kneeling stance, which we don't formally do. We also do "Ride the tiger" and reverse bow stance (called falling stance) one we do is in between a horse stance and a bow stance called (50/50) stance or "Drop belly stance" Its basically a fighting stance.

If your not bleeding, your not having enough fun

[7kicks]

CJMAX

I'll try and clarify my system stances or at least the names as compared to yours.

horse stance-basic horse stance
hill climbing horse stance-also known as leaning stance, I think it is what you call a bow stance.

lady horse- also called twisting stance it is a low stance left leg crossing over right or vice versa.

cat stance- cat stance

crshing stance- rear leg absorbes most of the weight slightly bent. Front leg straight, both feet on floor. Also your knees should be touching.

kneeling stance- kneeling stance on one leg

butterfly stance- both legs out by your sides, your buttocks should be touching the floor, feet should be facing outwards.

seven star- like the crushing stance except the front leg on the heel of the foot.

we alos utilize the golden chicken stance which is where you are standing on one leg with the other leg drawn up high in a guard position.

Well I hope this helped you a little more.

[Taijimantis]

Plese refer to my SiHing Mantis 108...
My strength is developing history, he is a far better martial artist than I.