Wong Hon Fun didn't master everything?

[cha kuen]

What didn't wong hon fun master? Did he not learn a few more hand forms?

[Shaolin Master]

Quality not Quantity :)

[BeiTangLang]

You appear to be a seeker in the truths of mantis; this is a good thing. What do you know about Wong Hon Fun so far that he did master?? Ask a more specific question & you will get a better answer.
"What didn't Wong Hon fun master?"....
---Let me count the ways,....
He didn't master reading, writting nor speaking over a hundred languages, driving a car, flying a plane....See what I mean??
---
What I know that he mastered: Enough of Lo Kwang Yuks mantis to carry lineage with his name & Lo Kwang Yuks blessing to do it.
What is your real question??
-Yours in humble service,
BTL

"It's all the same; Only the names have changed........."

[cha kuen]

I argue with mantis people from the chui che man side that wong hon fun mastered mantis, but they keep telling me otherwise. I ask why they have over 100 hand forms. They say that WHF only has 36 hand forms because he did not master everything.

Also I bought a 7 star mantis book that had 55 hand forms in it. I read through it and every form that I was not familiar with, I actually was familiar with. Some of the forms that I have not heard of had entire sections from other forms already in the WHF lineage. There were strange names of forms that had the first section of bong bo and the third section of essential #2. I concluded that the extra forms in the book were only repeats of what WHF already knows. So to whoever says that WHF didn't master everything, I argue otherwise. Simply because the movements in the other 100 forms in the CCM lineage are already in the WHF lineage, just in different order. Perhaps Loki or Lawclansman can contribute.

[BeiTangLang]

Stop worrying about what other families say! Either that or change families perhapse. I know what we have is consistant with the mainland & was documented by WHF himself in books.
No matter what the argument or counter-argument for either side, the end result will be the same; No real answer that both sides will agree to save this; _We ALWAYS agree to DISSAGREE!_ LOL!
Drop this & go on with your training; energy is better spent there.
-BTL

"It's all the same; Only the names have changed........."

[loki]

Hi Cha Kuen,

I am really not interested in getting into a discussion about this. Let's just say all the families are good in their own way, ok?

Won Hun Fun did a lot to promote the art of Praying Mantis and he produced many good and respected Sifu as did Chiu Chi Man. But let's not forget that they were not the only students Law Gwong Yuk had. I have seen other LKY Sifu do Bung Bo different than even CCM's or WHF's , so who is right and who is wrong?

If you are happy with what you are doing , then that's all that matters and don't worry about anybody else. :)

The only thing I do want to directly address is when you said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I argue otherwise. Simply because the movements in the other 100 forms in the CCM lineage are already in the WHF lineage , just in a different order. [/quote]

Okay, how do you know this? Have you seen 100 forms? I really doubt that. Not many people have. All I can say is that there are many moves in many forms that are not found anywhere in WHF's forms. Believe it , don't believe it , doesn't matter. We should still be able to get along regardless , don't you think? ;)

NO ROAD IS AS LONG OR FILLED WITH AS MANY OBSTACLES AS THE ONE TRAVELLED BY THE CHINESE BOXER. FEW ATTEMPT TO TAKE IT . THOSE THAT REACH IT'S END ARE EVEN FEWER.

[BeiTangLang]

The 100+ forms info was from the keyboard of Lawclansman on more than one list/forum. So, you would have to addrerss the question to him really.
Also, unless you are of his school & lineage, he cannot share the names nor content of about 30 of those...per his prior posts.
-BTL

"It's all the same; Only the names have changed........."

[LawClansman]

Cha Kuen,
The subject of form number or content is always a touchy one it seems. The comments I have made in the past have been from first hand experience. I actually knew Wong Hon Fun. A fact that many I have disputed with simply ingnore. Its the same with Bruce Lee. My experiences with him differ from what people would expect me to say so they simply refuse to believe it.

That being said, never has been my contention that 100 forms are required to master mantis. Wong Long would be considered a master as well as our progenitor. He had only 3 forms(purportedly).

Weither Wong Hon Fun had 30 or 50 forms has nothing to do with his mastery of the style. But there is a fact that still remains and that is that Wong Hon Fun never taught ANYONE all of the sets that HE knew. This has been stated by many of his disciples. So how do you know how many forms Wong Hon Fun actually had. No one knows. He did not write a book on all of his sets. For example Descending eagle palm is a set practiced by both Chiu Chi Man and Wong Hon Fun sects. However, many WHF discples had argued that they didn't have it. Now it is known and documented in the WHF 40th yearbook that this set is included in the WHF clan as well.

My point is that how many other forms exist in the same manner.

My position on this subject has been made very clear. I respect WHF and accept him wholeheartedly as a master of mantis. Furthermore, I give him credit that, through his writings, he has been a major reason that the mantis style is known throughout the world.

My disputes have been about other issues. Such as the delegation of authority by LGY. and other matters that really are political in nature. But the fact that WHF was a mantis master, is not now nor ever has been in question.

Sifu Carl

[This message was edited by LawClansman on 01-28-01 at 08:34 AM.]

[loki]

BeiTangLang, as an FYI...

Lawclansman is my Sifu :D

NO ROAD IS AS LONG OR FILLED WITH AS MANY OBSTACLES AS THE ONE TRAVELLED BY THE CHINESE BOXER. FEW ATTEMPT TO TAKE IT . THOSE THAT REACH IT'S END ARE EVEN FEWER.

[BeiTangLang]

Well then,....your gonna know the names of the other 30 then :)
Just wanted to keep everyone informed.
Thanks,
-BTL

"It's all the same; Only the names have changed........."

[traitor]

I tell you, Wong Hon Fun was a living legend. Only someone does known that Chiu Chi Man thaugt over 100 sets, which about 70 sets are from the plethora of the Ching Wu Association. Ching Wu has more than 70 sets, which CCM learned from Ching Wu first. All sets are not original set of Praying Mantis.Many sets are modified from CCM himself.
Wong Hon Fun was the most knowledgeable of recent Praying Mantis sifus. He was the sure mantisking.

John Lee

[loki]

Wow Traitor,

You sure do seem to know a whole lot about what CCM knew. Keep it up :rolleyes:

NO ROAD IS AS LONG OR FILLED WITH AS MANY OBSTACLES AS THE ONE TRAVELLED BY THE CHINESE BOXER. FEW ATTEMPT TO TAKE IT . THOSE THAT REACH IT'S END ARE EVEN FEWER.

[cha kuen]

Lawclansman,

I did not mean for this post to be a WHF vs. CCM. I am just curious to what WHF didn't learn, whether that be 70 more hand forms or techniques.