Weapons for now

[syn]

Yeah I think if I was caught in a situation where we both had knives I'd say "You know what I don't want to die and I'msure you don't, so how about we just not fight?"

[GeneChing]

We both pulled knives and glared at each other. Our friends jumped in immediately and separated us. It was over a 'dirty look' basically, and it was in College. As I remember it, the other guy basically started on this 'you lookin' at me?!' sort of trip and pulled a knife and started waving it about. I pulled mine and there we were at one of those macho stand-offs, both looking for an out. I like to think I could wave a knife about better than he could, and I like to think that intimidated him into hesitating, which gave our friends the chance to separate us. Ha! Who says forms are useless?

It was a very stupid thing to do on both our parts, but we were drunk at this College party. Anyway, later I realized that if I didn't have a knife, the situation wouldn't have escalated. I would have just left. I never saw that guy again, but I have a sneaking suspicion it was David Ross. Just kidding.

[PangQuan]

Personally, I like throwing a party. I'm not sure how that will help when you're getting mugged though.

with a large enough party, you have an army of drunken soldiers. I would be afraid of that.

btw i can throw a flying sidekick standing still. all i need is the same distance one would need for a reg sidekick. its all about set up.

ill spit in thier eye then sidekick em in chest. why reach into your pocket for a penny when a lugie is just on the tip of your tounge?

[PangQuan]

if your ever walking somewhere and you are weapon less, and you feel the need to have some small protection just look to the ground.

as long as you are in a city where there are street sweepers that clean then there will be plenty of street sweeper blades lying around.

you can slip one of those little puppies in someones gut pretty easy. and chances are no one would even see it until its too late.

[Mr Punch]

if your ever walking somewhere and you are weapon less, and you feel the need to have some small protection just look to the ground.

as long as you are in a city where there are street sweepers that clean then there will be plenty of street sweeper blades lying around.

you can slip one of those little puppies in someones gut pretty easy. and chances are no one would even see it until its too late.

See, this is what I'm talking about...

Say it goes like this:

1) Guy approaches you asking what time it is.
2) Reasonable seeming guy, there are a few people on the street but it's dark: he comes to a reasonable distance, maybe three steps away.
3) You look and tell him the time.
4) You wonder for a split second (too long) why he's still staring at you...
5) "What you looking at?" BAM

So when exactly do you get out the change/keys, take off the jacket, look around and pick up a street cleaning blade (whatever that is)?

Or do you just beat the **** out of anyone who asks you the time?!

So are you saying to me that you wanna pick up the street cleaning blade every time you go down a dark street? In which case it's a) pre-meditated and b) you may as well just carry a blade!

Are you saying you'll have time to look round for anything? I wanna be looking at the guy in front of me!

Are you saying you wanna be walking around with your hands in your pockets in case you need to throw some change? I don't want my hands in my pockets if somebody's pushing me around.

Any strategy that involves looking around for something is useless. As I've said , I've already made it a habit to notice what's around on the floor. Not out of paranoia but because I'm naturally observant. Even that doesn't mean I'm gonna get time to get to it. And even then appearances are deceptive; walking my dog the number of times I've picked up a strong solid looking stick to find it's rotten and crumbled in my hands don't want counting!

Any strategy that involves quickly reaching in and pulling something out of your pocket is useless unless you've practised it a thousand times. That's why there are drills in knife schools to train you to take out and lock your knife quickly, and why there are drills in gun schools teaching you to draw your gun quickly. If you want to waste your time practising taking your change out and throwing it at someone a thousand times that's your business, but I'd prefer to hit the heavy bag for a thousand punches in bunches.

And paradoxbox, anybody intent on taking your money or your life will NOT flinch when you put your hand in your pocket. They'll kick the crap out of you.

[paradoxbox]

See, this is what I'm talking about...

And paradoxbox, anybody intent on taking your money or your life will NOT flinch when you put your hand in your pocket. They'll kick the crap out of you.

I strongly disagree. Any person with the ability to think will see this movement as a threat. The most immediate thing that comes to their mind is that you are reaching for a gun or a knife, especially if you reach in a way that conceals what is in your hand. At least, that's the way it is in north america. People in a place where violence isn't a problem won't respond the same way. Likewise, people high or drunk probably won't respond the same way. I personally experienced this several months ago when a lunatic invaded my home, came through my window and held something in his hand (appeared to), and stood in a way that concealed what was in his hand, I was immediately threatened just because of the way he was standing, regardless of what he had in his hand (I never found out). This was broad daylight in my own home.

But go try it for yourself on a dark street. Stop in front of some strangers, reach into left pocket with your right hand and try to look tough about it. There's no way in hell that is an innocent looking act, not even to someone who wants to hurt you. It might make someone think twice about coming closer. They know you're about to pull something out, and they know that it's probably something that is dangerous to them. And it puts you in a position to actually retrieve a weapon from your pocket. If someone is actually intent on killing you, you should be using every single weapon you have available to you including spare change and keys, if you don't have something more lethal on your person at the time. Of course, if someone is REALLY bent on killing you, you shouldn't give them any warning at all, just slice a major artery without giving them a chance, but these hypothetical encounters never work that way...

[Sifu Darkfist]

hmm, you sound a bit like the Tokugawa period Japanese, with your lets not carry a gun routine. (they got far didnt they )
I’ve got news for you, in the U.S. if you get attacked the chances of facing a gun are very high so i say a gun IS the answer.

a good place is in your back where your wallet is== "gimmie your wallet!" ok, ok here!

of course you need to train it as much as or more than your Martial arts. opps correction it is your martial arts.

Liberalism has its limits and this movement toward disarming the good guys crosses waaayyyy over it.

So rule number one avoid places where there might be conflict or hazards
rule number two the bigger the caliber the better the stopping power
rule number three train your gun harder than your Jian or Dao
and of course do not break the law or do things that might take away your privilege to carry a weapon

nothing personal It just mileads people into thinking it is criminal to carry when the same old arguement against is the only thing heard

[Dim Wit Mak]

I picked up a spring loaded baton in honolulu a couple years ago, fits in the pocket nicely, just don't get caught brandishing it or you will be severely punished here in california.

Man, would I love to get ahold of a ballistic knife. I used to see them advertised in magazines, but I think they are illegal everywhere now. They would probably be fairly easy to make.

[SimonM]

Um....

First you must remember that only a fool carries a weapon they are not willing to use. OK? Got that?

If you are not 100% committed to stabbing or shooting somebody than more likely than not your knife or gun will be used against you in an altercation.

Second you should consider the laws of your region. Here in China walking around with chucks on your person is not so much of a problem in Canada you'd get your ass in the cooler for that.

Third... A knife. Knives are simple, multi-purpose tools with a set of effective self-defense applications that don't require any modification to the tool. Not a switchblade or a folding blade or anything too large to fit in a pocket. Just a small, two edged, knive may be the most effective self defense tool....

Of course you had best not pull it unless you have both legal impetus and willingness to sink it into somebody.

[Mr Punch]

I strongly disagree.

Fair enough.

Any person with the ability to think will see this movement as a threat. The most immediate thing that comes to their mind is that you are reaching for a gun or a knife, especially if you reach in a way that conceals what is in your hand.

Yep, and any person who wants to attack you cos they want your money or they're on drugs or both will respond to this threat by attacking immediately.

At least, that's the way it is in north america.

Yep, the places I've lived in the UK too.

Likewise, people high or drunk probably won't respond the same way.

That's most people who are going to attack you in the street in the UK anyway. Them plus sociopaths who will also have no compunction in flattening you.

I personally experienced this several months ago ...

I don't really see the relevance of your personal example; you're not a stone cold thug. From my personal experience of being attacked in the street and reaching meaningfully into my pocket (this has happened to me two times), once it worked with a gang of four street kids, and once it didn't with a big knife-wielding crackhead. Fifty-fifty doesn't sound like too good odds to me, when the times I've been approached and in the above scenario it's been me that's gone BAM I've had 100% success.

But go try it for yourself on a dark street. Stop in front of some strangers, ...

See above explanation. I've tried it for real - none of your hypotheticals here. And not with a group of innocent strangers who were not intent on stabbing/beating me. Of course it'll work on your ordinary citizens.

And it puts you in a position to actually retrieve a weapon from your pocket.

Yeah, if you have one, then that's the only thing we can agree on here. And like I said in my above post - you need to practice drawing, otherwise it's pointless, and so likewise, the act of putting your hand into your pocket should be fast enough to make it nothing more than a means to an end.

If someone is actually intent on killing you, you should be using every single weapon you have available to you including spare change and keys, if you don't have something more lethal on your person at the time. ..

They are not weapons or useful as such. That is why I would use my hand which is, and is faster! Plus, if I'm gonna fake throwing anything an empty opening palm coming towards them has a similar flinch effect to actually throwing small change, and that palm again takes no preparation! Like I said, if you want to waste your time practising and throwing small change at dangerous attackers, it's your funeral, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

[SimonM]

Gotta agree with Mat on this one. No weapon is better than a dumb weapon by far. Many times no weapon is better than a good weapon (see my and Gene's comments on knives). Throwing small change is a dumb weapon. Any weapon training takes time. Train on weapons that are either: A: Practical, B: Useful for skill transferrence or C: at least fun to train with.

[paradoxbox]

>I don't really see the relevance of your personal example; you're not a stone cold thug. From my personal experience of being attacked in the street and reaching meaningfully into my pocket (this has happened to me two times), once it worked with a gang of four street kids, and once it didn't with a big knife-wielding crackhead. Fifty-fifty doesn't sound like too good odds to me, when the times I've been approached and in the above scenario it's been me that's gone BAM I've had 100% success.<

So you are saying that, when you don't have a knife or gun, you would rather not get an extra 50% chance of stopping a potential attack? Great. You've proved my point, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but in the end you're going to fight so you might as well try anything. And by the way, where does that crackhead expect you to put your hands if he wants your money? Reaching into your pocket isn't rocket science, you're not doing speed knife drawing drills here, you're putting your hand in your pocket, which is something a 4 year old has the coordination to do easily enough.

By the way, that intruder in my home? I did the exact same thing with him, except he probably knew what it was I was holding in my hand (I wanted to give him the option to leave without getting hurt). He made the wrong choice and moved toward me so I cut him. Pretty simple, I 'reached into my pocket' so to speak, he escalated and I ended the situation, he ran away. Who's to say you are any better off if you don't have a weapon? You never know if they're going to try to kill you or not. By the way, I am pretty sure the intruder was a crackhead, judging by his weight, grey hair and messed up skin. And on the legal side I am in the clear with the police for my actions.

I would re-evaluate your stance on the effectiveness of making reaching motions for a weapon. Sure, if you don't have a weapon you're in big trouble, but then again, if you were doing it in the first place you are already in big trouble. Look on concealed handgun carry forums, a great deal of CHL holders will move their hands to their sidearms or even brandish them if a situation becomes bad enough. It's often enough to stop a bad situation. Sometimes it's not and you have to resort to other means. But it is a tool that can sometimes be used with success, varying success depending on the situation (as I stated in my original post and as you said yourself, worked at least 50% of the time). In my mind 50% is a hell of a lot better than 0%. Even if you don't have a weapon you may be able to stop the situation entirely, or it may have the opposite effect, but I don't think someone would try it unless they know they are in serious trouble, making it a moot point.

If you try using your hand against someone on meth you're probably going to lose. You'd better know some good throws, locks or chokes to put them out because strikes aren't going to do anything but **** them off. Neither is slashing them in a nonlethal way. Gravity, headshots or stopped blood supply are about the only things that make meth heads go down.

[Sifu Darkfist]

>

Gravity, headshots or stopped blood supply are about the only things that make meth heads go down.

Quite clearly a good case against the popular 9 mill handgun with its higher muzzle velocity.

on the other hand
A 45 with hollowpoint rounds will drop all men crack, meth, big and small. Head shot body shot arm shot it really doesnt matter it is a combat proven stopper. and much faster than a knife.

The compromise that many law enforcement agencies are making is the 40 S&W round. it is controllable by weaker shooters and packs a nice wallop with slower velocity for great knockdown.

[PangQuan]

if you read my post im talking about a situation where you all of a sudden feel like you are going in the wrong direction or just feel the need for a small weapon when you are weapon less.

im not suggesting you try and find one once you have contact with another person, thats crazy. I stated that if your walking around and all of a sudden want a weapon thats small, hard to notice, then you find one, while your still able. then just keep it in your hand.

situation:

dude is walking in an area of town he has not been before, just got out of his "meeting" and now its dark. Dude feels un easy, has no weapon for what ever reason, says to himself "i want a weapon" finds a ssb and keeps it palmed. now if anyone does try to mess with him and doesnt shoot him on spot, he can stick in in a stomach and run.


very simple idea. dont assume i mean to stop in the middle of an altercation to find one. thats just silly talk.

personally if i plan to have a weapon on my person and i am able its a handgun. dont need any macho act to pretend im tough. IF you get past my gun then you still have to deal with a martial artist.

Its all about state of the art weaponry. Always has been, always will be.

[paradoxbox]

Quite clearly a good case against the popular 9 mill handgun with its higher muzzle velocity.

on the other hand
A 45 with hollowpoint rounds will drop all men crack, meth, big and small. Head shot body shot arm shot it really doesnt matter it is a combat proven stopper. and much faster than a knife.

The compromise that many law enforcement agencies are making is the 40 S&W round. it is controllable by weaker shooters and packs a nice wallop with slower velocity for great knockdown.

I agree with this, in fact the advantages of 9mm dissapear with the availability of 45ACP high capacity handguns, where you might have up to 13-17 rounds of 45 caliber ammunition compared to a 9mm's 13-17. The bigger the hole the better, against meth heads, and with the low muzzle velocity you don't have to worry about blowing a hole through your target and 50 rows of parked cars behind him like you might have to with a tokarev 7.62x25mm or .357.