Imitate, Assimilate, Innovate...

[Shadowboxer]

All jazz musicians do the first two. The great ones (Bird, Diz, Satchmo,Trane,etc.) do the third. They practice the minute pieces (notes, scales,arpeggios) so that when they improvise, their command of the pieces is at such a high level that the music just flows out.

I see a similarity between learning music and kungfu. We practice the pieces so that when we fight/spar (improvise)... the kungfu just flows out ..."I didn't hit... it just hit by itself".

So,

Who (else) is innovating in WC? How (else) can we be innovative in WC?

For example, Eddie Bravo is adding to the BJJ repertoire with the "rubber guard" and "mission control",etc.
Emin has his anti-grappling curriculum ideas.
UWC is exploring longer range boxing ideas and footwork as well as Catch wrestling.
Andrew S. is looking for grappling applications from our 3 main sets.
Ernie uses a motorcylce helmet to work on timing and explosiveness (please fill in the gaps here Ernie )

[Ernie]

All jazz musicians do the first two. The great ones (Bird, Diz, Satchmo,Trane,etc.) do the third. They practice the minute pieces (notes, scales,arpeggios) so that when they improvise, their command of the pieces is at such a high level that the music just flows out.

I see a similarity between learning music and kungfu. We practice the pieces so that when we fight/spar (improvise)... the kungfu just flows out ..."I didn't hit... it just hit by itself".

So,

Who (else) is innovating in WC? How (else) can we be innovative in WC?

For example, Eddie Bravo is adding to the BJJ repertoire with the "rubber guard" and "mission control",etc.
Emin has his anti-grappling curriculum ideas.
UWC is exploring longer range boxing ideas and footwork as well as Catch wrestling.
Andrew S. is looking for grappling applications from our 3 main sets.
Ernie uses a motorcylce helmet to work on timing and explosiveness (please fill in the gaps here Ernie )

Your on role no gaps to fill

your going to run into the '' well first you must have a strong foundtaion what ever that means to who ever'' in [GOOD WING CHUN] '' what ever that means to who ever ''
and after you do you will see that there no need for anything else so there argument

but your hitting the nail on head for those that take control of there own journey and are not afraid to be wrong if it leads to a better understanding of one self

the best advice i can offer for growth be it music , martial arts , life ,,,,,, is allways try and step out of your comfort zone ,,, there you will learn
as long as you stay in you comfort zone you will never really grow just get better at the same old $hit

[Matrix]

the best advice i can offer for growth be it music , martial arts , life ,,,,,, is allways try and step out of your comfort zone ,,, there you will learn
as long as you stay in you comfort zone you will never really grow just get better at the same old $hit

Thanks for the reminder Coach. You're right, I have been getting a little complacent lately.

[AmanuJRY]

I see a similarity between learning music and kungfu.

One of my most favorite analogies.

Who (else) is innovating in WC? How (else) can we be innovative in WC?

Like many of the legendary jazz greats, they will likely go unrecognized until their death...and maybe not even then.

[couch]

Your on role no gaps to fill

your going to run into the '' well first you must have a strong foundtaion what ever that means to who ever'' in [GOOD WING CHUN] '' what ever that means to who ever ''
and after you do you will see that there no need for anything else so there argument

but your hitting the nail on head for those that take control of there own journey and are not afraid to be wrong if it leads to a better understanding of one self

the best advice i can offer for growth be it music , martial arts , life ,,,,,, is allways try and step out of your comfort zone ,,, there you will learn
as long as you stay in you comfort zone you will never really grow just get better at the same old $hit

Stepping out of your comfort zone is really a hard thing to do! I was just watching "A Warrior's Journey" (I think that's it) with Bruce Lee talking about the same thing. The movie/documentary was showing Lee talking about constantly venturing into something you don't feel comfortable doing as far as MA are concerned.

I think it's all about the individual in studying martial arts. At first, it's about the family, the lineage, the tradition. Then it's about personal growth. It's about pushing your personal boundaries and limits. And it sometimes is VERY uncomfortable.

When I first started this journey, tradition was so important to me, as I believe it was engrained in my brain from my instructors. It was easier to talk smack about what THIS guy or THAT girl was innovative and that the innovation is poo poo than to test my own limits.

It also feels wierd to challenge the tradition that has been engrained in the brain. It feels like it's cultish in the way I feel when I want to go against the grain. But, again, it's just personal growth.

Enough rambling. I'm at school and people are talking to me while I'm posting. Might sound garbly.

Peace,
Kenton

[Ernie]

Stepping out of your comfort zone is really a hard thing to do! I was just watching "A Warrior's Journey" (I think that's it) with Bruce Lee talking about the same thing. The movie/documentary was showing Lee talking about constantly venturing into something you don't feel comfortable doing as far as MA are concerned.

I think it's all about the individual in studying martial arts. At first, it's about the family, the lineage, the tradition. Then it's about personal growth. It's about pushing your personal boundaries and limits. And it sometimes is VERY uncomfortable.

When I first started this journey, tradition was so important to me, as I believe it was engrained in my brain from my instructors. It was easier to talk smack about what THIS guy or THAT girl was innovative and that the innovation is poo poo than to test my own limits.

It also feels wierd to challenge the tradition that has been engrained in the brain. It feels like it's cultish in the way I feel when I want to go against the grain. But, again, it's just personal growth.

Enough rambling. I'm at school and people are talking to me while I'm posting. Might sound garbly.

Peace,
Kenton

Kenton,
my friend your are being more truth full and honest and clear then 90% of the junk we see and read , your ''wakeing up'' inside your changing , you have been exposed to certain personal truths that go against the traditional brainwash machine ,
haveing your own thoughts as an individual , seeing things based on your view not a view given to you
it's a wierd and wonderful thing my friend and if you have the courage to walk on your own , i promise it will be an amazing journey

your just saying what most students feel inside but fear speaking out or acting out
people will try and suck you back in with all the generations of prerecorded hand me down statements , and they will play on making you feel bad , out cast , gulity,

but that is there insecurities not yours

walk on man
walk on

[couch]

Thanks for the good words, Ernie. I had a good sparring session yesterday where my good BJJ friends were there and we had Greg coaching me and Travis coaching my opponent. I see so many similarities in the martial arts the ****her I get. I am also to (rarely - however) pull off some key "Wing Chun" motions while I'm practicing BJJ or even in sparring. It's difficult, but with more practise, I hope to incorporate more of what I'm been learning. I also think that the more I play the sparring game and get more of that stimulus that I'm not used to...I'll feel more comfortable to use what I've been trying to perfect with Wing Chun.

I also thank you for the tip: keep moving.

By accident, I found this article about traditional Karate:
http://www.koryu-uchinadi.com/free_seminar_brocheur.htm

Don't mean to highjack the thread, Shadowboxer, although I feel that the article is along the same lines as what you were talking about and would like to share it!

Peace,
Kenton

[AmanuJRY]

From 'Prometheus Rising' by R.A. Wilson...

"As Thomas Kuhn showed in The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, science itself-- the apotheosis of third-circuit semantic rationality-- is not free of this neophobia. Kuhn demonstrated, at length, that each scientific revolution took one full generation to turn over the old world view. And Kuhn further showed that the older scientists never are converted to the new semantic paradigm. They are, in our terminology, mechanically hooked to their original imprints. The revolution is complete, as Kuhn shows, only when a second generation, not hooked to the old imprint, is able to compare the two models and decides rationally that the newer one really does make more sense.
But if science, the most self-correcting of all information processing third-circuit functions, has this one-generation time lag, what can be said of politics, religion, economics?"

[Ultimatewingchun]

Imitate, Assimilate, Innovate...

"All jazz musicians do the first two. The great ones (Bird, Diz, Satchmo,Trane,etc.) do the third. They practice the minute pieces (notes, scales,arpeggios) so that when they improvise, their command of the pieces is at such a high level that the music just flows out.

I see a similarity between learning music and kungfu. We practice the pieces so that when we fight/spar (improvise)... the kungfu just flows out ..."I didn't hit... it just hit by itself."


***GREAT TOPIC, Shadow...

Played lead guitar for ten years (1965-1975)...played everything from the Beatles to Jimi Hendrix and Cream...and quite a bit in-between. Lot's of blues - and even some jazz/rock fusion at the very end.

Your analogy is spot on!

[Matrix]

All jazz musicians do the first two.

Which STYLE of Jazz are we talking about? New Orleans, Chicago, BeBop or Fusion??? And if I "innovate" to the point that it sounds more like New Country rather than New Orleans is it still Jazz?

[Ernie]

Which STYLE of Jazz are we talking about? New Orleans, Chicago, BeBop or Fusion??? And if I "innovate" to the point that it sounds more like New Country rather than New Orleans is it still Jazz?

are you expressing yourself or just imitating
if your expressing your honset self then why label just play man !

[Matrix]

if your expressing your honset self then why label just play man !

Ernie, That's my point exactly. Since when did Wing Chun exclude improvisation? I just think that if you're not careful you may end up with something completely different.
To me, at a certain point, your Kung Fu will just be an expression of yourself. In the beginnign you need to learn the context, just as a musician learns the notes, and the riffs,etc. before they can improvise.
Just play! I like the sound of that.

Edited so as not to offend anyone.

[ghostofwingchun]

All jazz musicians do the first two. The great ones (Bird, Diz, Satchmo,Trane,etc.) do the third. They practice the minute pieces (notes, scales,arpeggios) so that when they improvise, their command of the pieces is at such a high level that the music just flows out.

I see a similarity between learning music and kungfu. We practice the pieces so that when we fight/spar (improvise)... the kungfu just flows out ..."I didn't hit... it just hit by itself".

So,

Who (else) is innovating in WC? How (else) can we be innovative in WC?

For example, Eddie Bravo is adding to the BJJ repertoire with the "rubber guard" and "mission control",etc.
Emin has his anti-grappling curriculum ideas.
UWC is exploring longer range boxing ideas and footwork as well as Catch wrestling.
Andrew S. is looking for grappling applications from our 3 main sets.
Ernie uses a motorcylce helmet to work on timing and explosiveness (please fill in the gaps here Ernie )

Shadowboxer thanks for thought provoking post! I am wondering . . . before we can assimplate or innovate we must imitate . . . in jazz there are great musicians that I can see and hear play and readily imitate . . . in sports there are great players that I can see play and imitate . . . in boxing or jujitsu or mma there are great players I can see and imitate . . . how do I know who to imitate in wc . . . or does it not matter who I imitate?

Thanks,

Ghost

[ghostofwingchun]

Your on role no gaps to fill

your going to run into the '' well first you must have a strong foundtaion what ever that means to who ever'' in [GOOD WING CHUN] '' what ever that means to who ever ''
and after you do you will see that there no need for anything else so there argument

but your hitting the nail on head for those that take control of there own journey and are not afraid to be wrong if it leads to a better understanding of one self

the best advice i can offer for growth be it music , martial arts , life ,,,,,, is allways try and step out of your comfort zone ,,, there you will learn
as long as you stay in you comfort zone you will never really grow just get better at the same old $hit

Ernie can you explain to me what you mean by comfort zone?

Thanks,

Ghost

[Ernie]

Bill-Ernie, That's my point exactly. Since when did Wing Chun exclude improvisation?

Sir that is such a beautiful question all by itself !

since money making self promoting robot manufactures discovered Labels and put lineage walls to seperate and box people into there scam

Ghost- I don't speak to dead people [well maybe just this once]