What is the main reason you train?

[Fajing]

I have question for those who say they want to be best fighter they can be . . . do you really train for that? Here is why I ask . . . there are some lads at my jujitsu school who are training to be the best they can be . . . they are at the school rolling 5 to 6 days a week . . . they go the gym for workout several times a week . . . they run everyday . . . they watch their diets . . . they compete . . . one just got back from trip to Brazil . . . in other words they are obsessed with jujitsu . . . they live and breath jujitsu . . . it consumes their every waking moment . . . they work so they can support themselves to do jujitsu . . . lol . . . jujitsu is their life . . . one just broke up with girlfriend because she was interfering with his jujitsu! And this pattern of behavior seems to be in any sport where people are trying to be elite athlete . . . to be the best they can be . . . of course I would love to be the best I can be . . . at many things . . . including wc . . . but I have other interests in life that I need to balance . . . other areas of life that are more important to me than wc . . . so for me I know that being the best I can be is not a realistic option . . . instead I focus on getting as much out of my practice and training as I can . . . because I only have so much time and energy to commit to wc . . . I am wondering if those who say they want to be best fighter are really putting in this level of effort . . . or is it just nebulous goal.

Thanks,

Ghost

Good post! In reality most people don't truly train to be the very best fighter they can be. Most likely some of that time they could spend training, they're actually watching TV, relaxing, ect... Although many claim that they train to be the best they can be, it's unlikely that they live up to this statement. If you think about your routine and your work, chances are you have other times and opportunities to train, but you don't. This is just life. How many people constantly say that they want to lose weight, but they don't have the time to exercise and so on.... In reality, any exercise that they could squeeze in would be better than none, but they still don't do it. Therefore I have to agree with your post. I see where you're coming from.

[Mr Punch]

With me, it's 'other'.

I started MA because of an interest in Zen and the discipline. Then got interested in self-defence. Then got interested in fighting. Now interested in the discipline again.

Training really is a part of life. Reasons are never enough anymore!

[AmanuJRY]

With me, it's 'other'.

I started MA because of an interest in Zen and the discipline. Then got interested in self-defence. Then got interested in fighting. Now interested in the discipline again.

Training really is a part of life. Reasons are never enough anymore!

So, was MA the only source you were aware of to learn Zen and 'discipline'?

There are many ways to study Zen without MA, and as for 'discipline', I'm curious as to what, specifically, you are referring - discipline, as in, someone to 'make sure' you train, or you need a little spanking now and then?

The one question that keeps nagging me is...Why choose MA for hobby, exercise, Culture (which is what I would catagorize Zen/Chan as), etc. if fighting isn't of some importance?

[Mr Punch]

So, was MA the only source you were aware of to learn Zen and 'discipline'?

There are many ways to study Zen without MA, and as for 'discipline', I'm curious as to what, specifically, you are referring - discipline, as in, someone to 'make sure' you train, or you need a little spanking now and then?

As to the zen, of course there are other ways! Just not near where I was... but I did have access to wahat turned out to be a good aiki dojo.

For the discipline, just because I'm English, doesn't mean we all like a bit if that spanking thing! I was 18, had had a few fights which I had successfully finished very easily mostly, and didn't like the results (other people with broken faces etc. Of course preferable to me having a broken face but I didn't think about that at the time). I had also lost my (at that time) phenomenal temper and had a couple of times where I'd picked up heavy or sharp things in relatively gentle arguments with an aim to using them on someone's head/body, and had a lot of potential (some realised) for self-harm issues. Hence feeling I needed some kind of discipline.

Although I didn't choose MA specifically to deal with my feelings of violence (at that time I didn't actually consider myself violent), of course it helped, and I must
have known in the back of my mind.

I only started WC years later, but to me MA is MA and the aiki and WC are just part of the same continuum. The only reason I 'chose' WC is because I moved and the local aiki and karate and hung gar were terrible!

The one question that keeps nagging me is...Why choose MA for hobby, exercise, Culture (which is what I would catagorize Zen/Chan as), etc. if fighting isn't of some importance?

I would suggest that zen is not a hobby for most people: I didn't want to start zen because I needed something to do on long winter nights. I would also suggest that it's not exercise (zazen, while it trains certain internal psychophysiology is if anything the opposite of physical exercise). And further, I would suggest that most people don't take up zen in search of another culture since the opportunities for understanding and finding out about anotehr culture through zen are severely limited.

I would suggest that for most zen practitioners (I can't speak for the US where Hollywood and its celebrity hobbyist culture probably has caused a different phenomena) zen is a way of life. Or a part of life. Just that. And that for me also explains MA.

[GungFuHillbilly]

...Why choose MA for hobby, exercise, Culture (which is what I would catagorize Zen/Chan as)

I would suggest that most people don't take up zen in search of another culture since the opportunities for understanding and finding out about anotehr culture through zen are severely limited.

Mat,

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I do feel however that you misunderstood Justin’s use of “culture” in the above post.

Culture can mean a wide variety of things and correct me if I’m wrong, but Justin seemed to be using culture in a much more general way. Not from ethnocentrism as in ‘dude I eat at the sushi place because I want the Japanese experience.’ But rather the more context specific ‘dude I love the culture of our chess club.’

Justin (and for those that answered ‘to be the best fighter I can’),

I am sincerely interested in how you estimate or determine this. I am honestly curious. Is competition the only way you see to test your skill? Of course there is always going to be someone stronger, faster, better timing, more skill, etc…(but this seems to be more of a ‘be the best fighter ever’ perspective anyway). So how else?

I just think sometimes people hear ‘I train to be a fighter’ and automatically think it’s all about a testosterone driven ego-competition. Or is that what it’s about?

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
GFH

[wei wu wei]

Nobody don't dance no more.

[stricker]

I just think sometimes people hear ‘I train to be a fighter’ and automatically think it’s all about a testosterone driven ego-competition. Or is that what it’s about?

Dude Nooooo way, this is so far from the truth. or maybe its just me... if your sparring with people of different abilities and going hard etc with even just a little real danger its all about dealing with ego. funny i had a chat with a psychology phd student last night all about just this etc.

basically if you go into sparring with a big ego sooner or later someones gonna humble you big time. thats why most of the "hard men" who come to mma dont come back after 1 session cos they cant get past their ego and realise its about bringing everyones skill up.

ps seriously, although i want to be the best i can be (at martial arts, and martial arts=fighting) the biggest benefit is i feel im a better person for it in every way. and none of the ma i do have any spiritual angle or any of that guff.

pps that doesnt mean one or two of the mma fighters i know dont put on a c0cky front but when it comes to training its totally different.

[anerlich]

In reality most people don't truly train to be the very best fighter they can be. Most likely some of that time they could spend training, they're actually watching TV, relaxing,

posting on internet forums ...

[anerlich]

I just think sometimes people hear ‘I train to be a fighter’ and automatically think it’s all about a testosterone driven ego-competition. Or is that what it’s about?

Their ignorance, I think - though you can't blame people for being of ignorant of something they have no experience of.

Being WILFULLY ignorant is something else, of course.

[ghostofwingchun]

The one question that keeps nagging me is...Why choose MA for hobby, exercise, Culture (which is what I would catagorize Zen/Chan as), etc. if fighting isn't of some importance?

Mr Justin I am thinking that fighting always has some importance . . . otherwise no need for martial art . . . your categories in poll reflect main reason for practicing wc . . . for example person can train for health or fitness and want side benefit of some fighting skill though this is not main reason . . . I train to get better fighting skills but do not kid myself to think that I will ever be best ever . . . or even reach my full potential since I can not . . . and do not wish to . . . devote the time or energy to attain that goal . . . I play other sports too . . . and I do not think I will ever be best at them or even the best that I possibly could be . . . these are pipe dreams for most of us . . . I am just honest with myself . . . honesty can be depressing at times . . . lol.

Thanks,

Ghost

[SimonM]

Why lie? I enjoy fighting. I find it fun to switch from the complicated issues of navigating a foreign country, of teaching english or previously of university to the simplicity of me and the other guy each trying to strike/throw/submit/whatever each other.

I'm not frightened of pain or of hard work.

I started serious martial arts training with Gong Fu and had the luck to get a great sifu. Now I am of the belief that within the context of Gong Fu you can be a well rounded, fight capable martial artist.

And so I do gong fu.

[Redd]

Mr Justin I am thinking that fighting always has some importance . . . otherwise no need for martial art . . . your categories in poll reflect main reason for practicing wc . . . for example person can train for health or fitness and want side benefit of some fighting skill though this is not main reason . . . I train to get better fighting skills but do not kid myself to think that I will ever be best ever . . . or even reach my full potential since I can not . . . and do not wish to . . . devote the time or energy to attain that goal . . . I play other sports too . . . and I do not think I will ever be best at them or even the best that I possibly could be . . . these are pipe dreams for most of us . . . I am just honest with myself . . . honesty can be depressing at times . . . lol.

Thanks,

Ghost

Details. The best fighters can't remember all that.

[Fajing]

posting on internet forums ...

EXACTLY!!!!! Most of us just train because we love it and desire some decent fighting skills. We simply don't have time to train to be the best fighter on the planet, nor do we want to train that much. Most of us have other interests in mind than winning UFC, or being the best fighter we possibly can be. Well, that's just my opinion anyway. However, for all of you hardcore martial artists who devote 5 hours a day to enhancing your fighting skills, ROCK ON!

[AmanuJRY]

Well the poll is closed now, and it looks like - if it's split into just two catagories, fighting or 'hobby' - it's an even split.

So, my questions are...

What does MA provide for the 'hobbiest' (or whatever else you want to refer to it as) that can't be obtained outside of MA (yoga, etc.)?

And...

If fighting is of some relevence (even if it is not the 'main' reason), why do the ideas of the 'hardcore' people on this forum go against your belief(s)?

Keep in mind, I'm referring to concepts and ideas. I'm not asking why you don't train 8 hrs. a day or anything like that, just why the concepts of integration and sparring are so harshly debated on this forum.

[Matrix]

What does MA provide for the 'hobbiest' (or whatever else you want to refer to it as) that can't be obtained outside of MA (yoga, etc.)?

Smacking other people upside the head and choking them out.
I tried this in a yoga class and it didn't go over very well.