Single Leg Horse Stance ?

[tansaujosh]

if im not mistake ( and im sorry if i am ) i thought the horse stance and SLHS was for leg condtiong, 2 make our stance better and fitness in the legs. if u want 2 train power and make a kick or punch or even technique stronger, faster or more powerfull then u train that punch,kick or technique

[Liddel]

Seems like a large part of the people responding have used the SLHS with regard to standing on one spot doing form.... while i think this is fine i wonder about other drills that you may do ? (if any)

One Example -
Stand in SLHS, get someone to grab your foot at the heel of your kicking leg (foot in front of your body), keep your knee's bent, then have them pull you around the room without you making your legs straight.
Obviously the floor must be smooth and you will need a sock on the grounded foot....

Sifu told me about a time when he saw two of his brothers try to starighten TST's leg in a similar fashon but failed because his leg power was quite large.
Good for retrieving a caught kick....and kicking power.

I have several drills related to the SLHS, the above example is one of them what about you guys, do you practice the one mentioned or others ?

Curious

[GungFuHillbilly]

if im not mistake ( and im sorry if i am ) i thought the horse stance and SLHS was for leg condtiong, 2 make our stance better and fitness in the legs. if u want 2 train power and make a kick or punch or even technique stronger, faster or more powerfull then u train that punch,kick or technique

Power, conditioning, speed, and technique are not mutually exclusive. The stronger and more flexible your legs are, the more you can focus on control of power. If your legs are tight, weak, and have a decreased range of motion; this will directly affect your power and technique (while also increasing the chances for injury).

If your stance is weak, then chances are no technique is going to be effective no matter how long you train that specific technique.

The key to one-legged training is that we are training balance, strength, and control through a specific range of motion. These are not addressed by standard weight training exercises (leg extensions, leg curls, squats, etc.).

-GFH

[Liddel]

Good points GungFuHillbilly,

I notice no one has addressed the second question in my post related to using kicks when the hands are in contact...... what is your approach and why ?

Just to clarify - this IS NOT a bee-arch session where i want to uncover the WRONG actions of other VT schools because mine is the ONLY right way

If you've read my posts in other threads you know im an open minded person who accepts others opinions

I just want to hear thoughts on the subject ?

[Airdrawndagger]

3 ways to train the legs using a kung fu approach...

1. Duck walk (i know, already mentioned)

2. Bunny hops. Same as duck walk in form but you hop around.

3. Standing straight, grab one leg by the toes. The leg you grab will be straight or should be for balance. In other words, plant your right foot and grab your left foot with your left hand. You will have better balance if your leg is straight. Then you do a one legged squat, maintaining your balance. Go ALL the way down until your butt is touching your planted foot and go back up. You cannot touch the ground! This exercise is the king of single leg training. Very difficult. Trains strength, balance, explosive power, and flexability...

Anyone try #3? Really tough!

[tansaujosh]

Power, conditioning, speed, and technique are not mutually exclusive. The stronger and more flexible your legs are, the more you can focus on control of power. If your legs are tight, weak, and have a decreased range of motion; this will directly affect your power and technique (while also increasing the chances for injury).

If your stance is weak, then chances are no technique is going to be effective no matter how long you train that specific technique.

The key to one-legged training is that we are training balance, strength, and control through a specific range of motion. These are not addressed by standard weight training exercises (leg extensions, leg curls, squats, etc.).

-GFH

thats the simplicity, its wing chun, if you are a gd wing chun practicioneer you would not need alot of motion to generate power for a strike, be it kicking, elbowing or punching.

[Simple_easy]

Wing Chun is a complete system, and because of that has a complete set of leg training exercises, starting with:

1- Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma
2- Chor Ma
3- Traditional Horse Stance and traditional squats
4- Single Leg Posture
5- Single Leg Extensions
6- Kicks in the air
7- Gaan Gurk
8- Dan Chi Gurk
9- Seung Chi Gurk
10- Kicking with the Mok Yan Jong
11- 8 leg motion with the Mok Yan Jong


These exercises provide more than enough opportunities for leg development. Plus they collected into Wing Chun, since many years ago. I think we should not understimate the experience of such people in the past had, and we should spend time training hard and not trying to reinvent the wheel!!!

obs:

Be very careful about your knees. You only have 2.

Traditionally Wing Chun kicks are practiced mainly against the Mok Yan Jong. No pads or bags.

Be careful with teachers that put too much enphasis on classes with 500~1000 kicks. Quality is much more important than quantity.

Be careful with military kind of squat exercises (duck, bunny, etc.....) They DO NOT have anything to do with control, flexibility and wing chun relaxed leg power.

The stretching used in leg training of Wing Chun is NOT the same as the stretching of some others martial arts.

[anerlich]

The stretching used in leg training of Wing Chun is NOT the same as the stretching of some others martial arts.

Could you elaborate?

I was aware that sensible flexibility and mobility training should be activity specific, per modern sports science, but not that it was quite this precise in its specificity.

My Sifu has a very high level of flexibility, and regularly demonstrates this and his kicking skills at MA exhibitions and the like. by all accounts sihing/James on this list is a flexibile and skilful kicker also.

AFAIK my sifu never needed any WC-specific stretching drills. Still, I'm sure he, and the rest of us would be very keen to hear about your WC-specific stuff.

[Simple_easy]

about stretching:


In Wing Chun you do the stretching when you practice Wing Chun forms, exercises, etc.....

For example, leg stretching: Single leg posture, Single leg slow extensions, and all the already mentioned leg exercises.......

Technically saying the Wing Chun kind of stretching is more a DYNAMIC kind and not a STATIC kind.

[anerlich]

Technically saying the Wing Chun kind of stretching is more a DYNAMIC kind and not a STATIC kind.

Well, OK, but most modern coaches do few static flexibility drills anyway. It's all mobility drills, dynamic flexibility exercises, and static active flexibility exercises (like the leg extension drills you mentioned). Iso metric flexibility if you want fast progress and your body can take it.

I can't see the difference myself, unless your trying to say that supplementary flexibility and mobility training is either unnecessary or counterproductive ofr learning WC, a position I can't agree with.

[Mr Punch]

For the record Andrew, I was taught a couple of wing chun specific leg-stretching exercises... at least I've only met them in wing chun. Not sure how effective they are though.

1) Stand on one leg (say right). Loop your left arm through from the outside of your left hip, back through past the back of your knee to the top again and seize you foot in your hand with your toes bent out (heel towards centre line). Extend your left leg and pull back at the same time with your left hand, whilst trying not to bend your back too much or fall over!

2) Vice versa (ie, your left arm from the inside of the thigh to the outside of the calf and grab the foot with the heel pointed out).

1 and 2 should be slow. 3 should be fast.

3) Stand on your right leg. Put your right wu sau in front of your bent left knee and pull back along centre line (thus pulling your left knee into bong gerk position).

Not very entertaining, and like I said, I don't know how effective they are, but I do do them sometimes.

[CFT]

1) and 2) sound like "Peking Opera" exercises. Thinking of the contortions that Jackie Chan and his sihing/dai practiced in their youth.

[anerlich]

They're not dissimilar to some yoga positions and BodyFlow balance exercises. But, I've not come across those exact drills in any other context.

[Mr Punch]

Well, I've only met them in wing chun... they come from either Yip Chun or Yip Ching.

I've also learned a wing chun specific arm-stretching exercise. From John D Virgilio's line, or maybe just his guy in Tokyo, I learnt an arm stretch where you make a bong sau into a horizontal elbow, then you place a wu sau under and on the back of elbow to stretch the bong muscles along the centreline. Then you whap out a tan, with the tan going out and the wu sau coming in.

It's quite nice, but again, I don't know if it stretches anything better than any other exercise would.

[CFT]

Nothing really WC specific, but some of my sihing take us through some leg stretching exercises for using the knee.

Raise knee on centreline (waist/sternum height) and rotate out and away from body. Repeat 20 times.
Repeat for other knee.

Raise knee to side of body (waist/sternum height) and rotate in to centreline. Repeat 20 times.
Repeat for other knee.