Good CLF techniques for boxing gloves?

[Fu-Pow]

Hey, what do you guys find are techniques that transfer best from CLF when wearing full-weight boxing gloves?

It always feels like I get too much "pull" when I'm using the big circular techniques, therefore I tend to favor the more linear stuff, but then you're not really using your CLF to its capability.

[Eddie]

sow choy, cup chow gwa choy... just about all CLF strikes work well with gloves. if you are fast enough, those strikes are pretty devestating (im having problems spelling today).

gloves doenst take much away from the fight

[David Jamieson]

not that i do clf, but your charp choi would work fine with gloves on.

gwa sao, i don't know, normally this technique uses a covering palm in many of it's iterations and boxing gloves don't give the kind of sensitivity to make a good cover or checking hand.

straight punch (sun fist, ping choi or yut gee choi you guys got this right?)

bin choy or sao choi and shooting star punches.

combining teh jab/cross/hok and uppercut with more kungfu punches is actually a very interesting exercise. Air/Bag/Mitts/opponent to correct alignments and structure in the technique as you throw it.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Chaap Choih with 14-16 oz. boxing gloves is a no-go.

The strike is sharp and most of it's effectiveness comes from the stabbing motion of the knuckles. You cannot get the same effect with gloves. Other strikes, Sow, Kahp, Biin, Pao, ....these are all good to go. You'll find that many of the minor seeds; Nahp Sau, Cum Jeung, Chuyhn Kiu, Poon Sau, Chom Kiu...they all most be modified and don't work nearly as well with gloves.

CLF is a good style to make the transition to San Da or MMA though.

[Eddie]

gwa cum works well, obviously you have to change the palm to a fist, but it works well as a technique in general. actually one of my fave san shou techniques.

[hskwarrior]

kwa kum sau chop.

or sau kwa sau

or kwa-- poon kiu--yum chop (to the face)

and the beat goes onnnnnnnnn............the beat goes on.


hsk

[Fu-Pow]

Do you guys find that its hard to spar with CLF going light especially with gloves on?

It seems a lot easier to pull your punches when you are using a straight punch as opposed to a sau chui or another longer technique.

This is something I'm constantly wrestling with when I spar. If I go fast with the CLF then that means there is power behind it. If I try to hold it back then its too slow and I get pummeled.

So I usually fall back to something more akin to boxing as far as hand techniques go because I have more control that way.

I think this might be true of a lot of kung fu styles and why it ends up looking like kickboxing when sparring. Kung fu, especially, CLF was designed for the quick knockout, not to tap, tap, tap for 10 rounds like in boxing...no disrespect intended toward boxing because there are some devastating boxers who get the knockout in the first round.

Its just the momentum that you build up with the CLF techniques is hard to control without sacrificing something. Going all out is OK for something like full contact San Shou but for light to medium contact San Shou then you've got a problem as far as using CLF.

It seems kind of all or none.

FP

[htowndragon]

yo frank

did u ever fight in those organized events with gloves?

[fu jow]

it definetly seems like the clf techniques are decidely unsportsmanlike. i spar with mostly kickboxing/sanshou punches and kicks. i'll sometimes fake a sau or gwa to the head, but strikes to the eyes,throat, knees, and groin,..not so much. i love these open sparring gloves i got from fairtex. their still very padded, but open so i can grab, and be stealthy..........good times..

[hskwarrior]

good times. LOL


light weight sparring on both ends is great. it can help you train your eyes to focus on the whole picture and not to get tunnel vision. during light sparring its okay to make mistakes because you get to learn what not to do without getting hurt.

The hardest person to spar is someone from your style because you both know exactly what the other will do. typically you can only use maybe 30-50% power on your sparring partner with really hurting him. Choy Lee Fut was meant to destroy enemies, not your sparring partners.

i never allow my students to resort to kick boxing or boxing type techniques. I strictly stay within the confines of our CLF. that way they learn from scratch not to have bad habits. just look into your CLF and be creative fu pow it will come to you sooner or later.

hsk

[Eddie]

a good fighter should be able to adapt, and wont find it hard to control his punches when he has to practice light contact. Also, we must be careful to asume all san shou fighters resort to " kickboxing" strikes when they fight, that would asume they all have square stances and throw straight punches. while this may be true for some fighters out there, its not true for allot of other san shou players. you can use your clf techniques without compromising anything, and without resoring to kickboxing style or boxers style.

if you are going to change your style to fit in with san shou, why not then just traing kicking, punching and throwing, and give up the rest.
having said that, you not going to look like someone in a shaw bros movie when you fight.
those clips of master chen yong fa practicing san shou is pretty much how i see CLF in a san shou match. i also saw a video clip on the net once with a guy from new york gym (whom i think is CLF), and it was pretty clear what the guy was doing.

but then again, CLF isnt just in the punches now is it?

[Fu-Pow]

a good fighter should be able to adapt, and wont find it hard to control his punches when he has to practice light contact.

But CLF , as in the forms is not practiced as "light" contact. Its heavy and has a lot of momentum behind it.

So I find that I have two choices.

1) Exert control and "pull" or weaken my CLF techniques which makes them slower. Resulting in me getting pummeled by more direct punches.

2) Go full out and hurt my training partner.

3) Use other techniques that I can use speed but control better ie usually more linear techniques either from CLF or boxing.

It seems like the problem is exacerbated by having extra weight on my hands from the gloves. It makes it harder to control, for example, a Sau Chui.

You've either got to do it full out or not do it at all. I don't see much CLF you can do in between and still be effective. I'm speaking specifically of the big overhand techniques in CLF.

FP

[CLFNole]

I think you can get away with most CLF with glove on no problem. If you are doing full contact it is real easy but even in light contact you can use gwa choys, sow choys and cup choys with little problem. You have to control it and hold back a bit but after all it is sparring and you need contact. I think if you are doing light contact you try to stop more or less at the point of impact rather than going through the target as you would for real or in full contact.

The problem become what is "light". We used to go pretty hard in what we considered light contact and the school in general has had a history of DQs due to excessive force in the patty cake tournament world. Some tournaments and head-refs will allow contact while with others its becomes a game of tag. In a school situation I think a certain amount of contact is warranted. Everyone should be adequately protected to ensure safety but it is good to get whacked upside the head from time to time. How can you know how to use a sow choy if you haven't been hit with one first? Hitting bags and dummies is good but if real self defense is what people are looking for you need knock each other around a bit. "Lightly" of course

[Eddie]

you can still control your sow chow the the point of impact, without compromosing on correct power or motion. Even if you just practice to change targets on your sow choy, its training, and should be seen as such.

Our school has always been a full contact school. Actually, in our Original school (in the late 80's early 90) it was almost an honor to have a spot where you know you shed some blood. I, and a few of my classmates, all had to replace a window or two for not controling the fight well enough, and accidently kicked someone through the window. But things has changed, we are no longer that violent, but we still only know full contact.

in class now, we do full contact, with no or light contact to the head. when we do go full out, we wear protective gear, and try be as careful as we can.

After having to have had suffered with severe head aches for the last 20 years of my life, I am against ' head' contact for children. Spend some time chatting to Dr Maslow, medical advisor for the European Wushu Federation a few weeks back, and he too supports this idea.

the key thing fu pow is, dont get over excited while you are fighting. That way you pretty much have control over everything. Its really not that hard to practice CLF with control.

[Havick01]

But CLF , as in the forms is not practiced as "light" contact. Its heavy and has a lot of momentum behind it.

So I find that I have two choices.

1) Exert control and "pull" or weaken my CLF techniques which makes them slower. Resulting in me getting pummeled by more direct punches.

2) Go full out and hurt my training partner.

3) Use other techniques that I can use speed but control better ie usually more linear techniques either from CLF or boxing.

It seems like the problem is exacerbated by having extra weight on my hands from the gloves. It makes it harder to control, for example, a Sau Chui.

You've either got to do it full out or not do it at all. I don't see much CLF you can do in between and still be effective. I'm speaking specifically of the big overhand techniques in CLF.

FP

The way I look it is if you know how to use the technigues when needed that will be effective. And it dose not matter if its boxing or choy lay fut etc. if you cant fight you cant fight.. To be a good fighter you need to have control over your power and be able to mix it up,because if you cant do that you need more training..