The art of CLF grappling

[hskwarrior]

and he doesn't realize i know he's kenny poop.

[CLFNole]

I would agree with you there. His constant badgering of you was a trademark before..

[extrajoseph]

Let's be fair, I don't think he is the only one who is constantly badgering and I am not referring to anyone in particular.

Lets all stop and go to some practice.

OK?

[Infrazael]

Choy Lee Fut does have "take downs" in the form of throws, sweeps and tripping ,and cum la.A take down does not have to be in the form of a "shoot" to be a "take-down". The method can be variable, but if it delivers the goods then it is a take-down! CLF is a fighting system and not a sports competition so you would likely see more emphasis on a quick incapacitation of the opponent, and my opinion is in actual serious application the cum la with the correct ging and technical details can easily be converted to a "break" rather than a "submission" for the "tap". And the cum la locks can easily be converted to a "throw".

You would be surprised to how easy a "submission" can produce something called a "broken joint."

It's called applying pressure.

Fighting is fighting is fighting. Sport or non-sport, gloved or bare knuckle. Fighting is fighting.

If you can fight, you can fight.

If you can't, then you can't.

In my experience "sport" and "competition" produces far more fighters than non-sport ones. The reason? Training methodology. CLF is so ****ing badass if everyone would simply train with 100% aliveness and full intent . . . . . . . .

[VStanmore]

Applying pressure is more for control.

There is better method for executing a break.

[Mano Mano]

You would be surprised to how easy a "submission" can produce something called a "broken joint."

It's called applying pressure.

Fighting is fighting is fighting. Sport or non-sport, gloved or bare knuckle. Fighting is fighting.

If you can fight, you can fight.

If you can't, then you can't.

In my experience "sport" and "competition" produces far more fighters than non-sport ones. The reason? Training methodology. CLF is so ****ing badass if everyone would simply train with 100% aliveness and full intent . . . . . . . .

I coundn't agree more

If we put a person from all branches in together to fight who would win? Great Sage, Heroic Victory, Fut San Hung Sing & Bak Sing.
The winner would be the person who was the best fighter irrespective of branch.

[hskwarrior]

that would be such a great fight though.

because only we know how aggressive CLF can be.

and the toughest person to fight is your own classmates or others from your style because we already know how to deal with what we do.

so mano mano, you are completely correct.

when it comes to fighting, i don't see lineage. I only see CLF. I don't box, MMA, or anything else. I just do CLF.

[Mano Mano]

that would be such a great fight though.

I think it would be one of greatest learning opportunities

because only we know how aggressive CLF can be.

Aggressive yet at times with the deceptive appearance of passivity

and the toughest person to fight is your own classmates or others from
your style because we already know how to deal with what we do.

you got that right.

[hskwarrior]

i like the pacivity part.

thats part of my phyical appearance. i look just some overweight guy and people usually don't like to bother with me.

my sifu also likes it when others mistake him as some ordinary old man.

[VStanmore]

You would be surprised to how easy a "submission" can produce something called a "broken joint."

It's called applying pressure.

Fighting is fighting is fighting. Sport or non-sport, gloved or bare knuckle. Fighting is fighting.

If you can fight, you can fight.

If you can't, then you can't.

In my experience "sport" and "competition" produces far more fighters than non-sport ones. The reason? Training methodology. CLF is so ****ing badass if everyone would simply train with 100% aliveness and full intent . . . . . . . .

Not all training should be done if the form of partner work. Training cum la joint locks with a partner can be good for developing feeling and sensitivity, as well as perfecting technical details. But breaks can also be practiced for example on the ching jong, where there is tough resilience for executing more power, and if your break shatters the wooden arm then imagine what will happen with the opponent's joint when applied seriously!
Depending how you view grappling and cum la, the art of cum la does benefit from detailed knowledge of human anatomy and here it may overlap with that of accupressure point striking. Knowing vulnerable and weak accupressure points, and being able to locate them with speed, precision and accuracy on an opponent, it will greatly increase the effectiveness of the "locking" for "control" even against a large and physically stronger opponent.
It is obviously impractical to practice accupressure point striking on the opponent with power, so what to do?
The comprehensiveness of the system of Choy Lee Fut already has a solution.....
There is the tung yun jong or copper man dummy for training the accupressure point striking, and it is, if I'm not mistaken, one of the 18 jongs of Choy Lee Fut.

When you think about it, the oi lim bic da soy sou yum yeung kung note the term "soy sou" or hand breaking. It is my opinion that the design intent of kum la is more inclined towards a "break" hence "hand breaking" and not to pressuring for a "tap" although you may do it that way.

The fan form called soy sou sihn, or hand breaking fan also has accupressure point striking. 18 point strikes to be specific. And there are the 2 fan wooden dummies for training as well.

So you can see how comprehensive and deep the style is.

Likely only the ignorant would think because he thinks hes a good brawler he can MAKE UP something better or equal to the system of Chan Heung's Choy Lee Fut.

[Infrazael]

Hehe . . . . .

Nothing wrong with cross training either. Learn CLF, learn submissions, learn everything you can.

All the old masters cross trained . . . Chan Heung, Jeong Yim, everyone.

We should probably do the same too.

And yes an all-out CLF tourney?

Why can't we organize something? The Kyokushin boys already do it. Muay Thai has fights all the time.

Why can't we have a CLF tournament, some sort of annual thing? That would be awesome.

[CLFNole]

Are the pressure point dummies & fan dummies in existence or just pictures in the kuen po? I was wondering since we claim CLF has 18 dummies but if many don't exist do we really have 18 sets?

[hskwarrior]

ha,

without proof that chan Heung created all the jongs, you cannot call it CLF jongs.

How do you know that the idea of Jong's didn't come from the training aids of Shaolin.

You can't put everything under Chan Heung. Joseph said that Chan branch has a kuen po for throwing rocks. But the concept of throwing rocks is millions of years old.

So how can chan Heung create and re-invent rock throwing if it already existed?
wasn't he doing exactly what Kenny poop is saying that I or others are doing when they don't practice Chan Heung Choy Lee Fut?

If Chan Heung created Spear forms why did he if they already existed? I'm sure shaolin taught spear forms.

wing Chung and other systems have their own jongs. So are you saying that these styles are stealing from chan heung? What about the Wing CHun Dummy? it looks just like the CLF one just inverted.

So when you act like no one but Chan Heung can put together a form for the Jong, a spear form, a buddha Palm form, or anything else you Kennypoop are full of sheet.

Gung Fu existed long before Chan Heung was alive. Weapons existed long before Chan Heung. The staff, the spear, the tiger forks, the tiger hooks, and so on. So if they already existed, kenny are you saying that that your own lineage holder Chan Heung was wrong for taking something that already existed and made it his own?

So basically what Chan Heung did was take weapons and things that already existed and forgred it into his own concoction. Put a twist on it that can be traced back to the CLF style.

And you say anyone is wrong for doing the very same thing Chan Heung was doing?!

why?

How stupid can you get?

[VStanmore]

Not all training should be done if the form of partner work. Training cum la joint locks with a partner can be good for developing feeling and sensitivity, as well as perfecting technical details. But breaks can also be practiced for example on the ching jong, where there is tough resilience for executing more power, and if your break shatters the wooden arm then imagine what will happen with the opponent's joint when applied seriously!
Depending how you view grappling and cum la, the art of cum la does benefit from detailed knowledge of human anatomy and here it may overlap with that of accupressure point striking. Knowing vulnerable and weak accupressure points, and being able to locate them with speed, precision and accuracy on an opponent, it will greatly increase the effectiveness of the "locking" for "control" even against a large and physically stronger opponent.
It is obviously impractical to practice accupressure point striking on the opponent with power, so what to do?
The comprehensiveness of the system of Choy Lee Fut already has a solution.....
There is the tung yun jong or copper man dummy for training the accupressure point striking, and it is, if I'm not mistaken, one of the 18 jongs of Choy Lee Fut.

When you think about it, the oi lim bic da soy sou yum yeung kung note the term "soy sou" or hand breaking. It is my opinion that the design intent of kum la is more inclined towards a "break" hence "hand breaking" and not to pressuring for a "tap" although you may do it that way.

The fan form called soy sou sihn, or hand breaking fan also has accupressure point striking. 18 point strikes to be specific. And there are the 2 fan wooden dummies for training as well.

So you can see how comprehensive and deep the style is.

Likely only the ignorant would think because he thinks hes a good brawler he can MAKE UP something better or equal to the system of Chan Heung's Choy Lee Fut.

For those interested, I took this selection from the CLF fan article. It has been available online for some time.

At a higher level of training, the steel fan is used with a copper-man dummy to improve a student’s acupressure point striking techniques. The copper-man dummy is constructed in such a way that when the correct acupressure point is hit, it makes a distinct clicking noise. The idea is to strike as many points as accurately as possible in the shortest time. The student has to strike points with force and accuracy, otherwise the clicking sound will not be heard clearly.

Our teacher often said;

“It is easy to strike the points but difficult to locate the points.”

To do “dim-mak” well, the student has to study the meridian charts, to know its locations by heart and what damage each one can cause. The surface area of an acupressure point is very small, 2-3 mm at the most, so accuracy is very important, especially when you try to hit a fast moving target.

The trick is to deliver the strike with “ging” (penetrating force), while maintaining speed and accuracy. In the Choy Lee Fut manual for steel fan dim-mak it is stated that when using the fan;



“the mind must be coupled with the heart,

the heart with the strength,

the strength with the qi,

the qi with the fan,

the fan with the eyes, and

skill with dexterity”.

Choy Lee Fut also has many couplets that guide the practitioner's training and/or application of the art.

Anyone heard of this kuet? : "Be still like a mountain,....move swiftly like a frightened rabbit."
Another one "lian ho sou but yue lian ho jou" telling the CLF practitioner the importance of footwork in the training of CLF kung fu.

And of course there is the sup baat ji kuet or 18 characters formula which should be the foundation of the structure of CLF in terms of theory. Combine it with practice, and I think the results will be remarkable!

[SevenStar]

Choy Lee Fut does have "take downs" in the form of throws, sweeps and tripping ,and cum la.A take down does not have to be in the form of a "shoot" to be a "take-down". The method can be variable, but if it delivers the goods then it is a take-down!

Wresting and judo both have several takedowns. the double leg is just a very efficient one, and thus preferred by many wrestlers.

CLF is a fighting system and not a sports competition so you would likely see more emphasis on a quick incapacitation of the opponent, and my opinion is in actual serious application the cum la with the correct ging and technical details can easily be converted to a "break" rather than a "submission" for the "tap". And the cum la locks can easily be converted to a "throw".

Do you REALLY think that a lock from a grappler can't easily be converted to a break?? jing or not, it's not hard at all. Same with choking. I've choked several people unconscious; there is nothing unique to CLF that allows this.

Choy Lee Fut is such a deep system it can cater for the fighting preferences of many different people, personalities and body types.

ANY art worth its salt will do this.