When is this crap gonna stop?

[Fu-Pow]

OK, everyone, for us all to get along we need to accept our own personality flaws and weaknesses. We can't sit here moaning about other people and then seek to justify our own bad behaviour. Most of us here have been bad at one point or another, and it's pointless going over the whys and wherefores. We need to agree to respect each other's views and not descend into personal insults, and get on with REAL discussions about CLF.

Like I said, as far as I'm concerned, there is ONE main instigator here. Until he is banned then its not going to get any better. There is always another option and that is to use your ignore list feature. If enough people make use of it, then he is essentially banned...ie we do the job that the mods should be doing.

FP

[hskwarrior]

see what i mean.

the coldest thing about the situation is that more than half of you have jeong yim in your lineages. but you all tend to lean towards chan heung.

look at fu pow, he calls me an instigator, when all i was trying to do was share jeong yim's info with you guys. but because you've never really thought about jeong yim;s history, or you don't care......but when i come and tell you about jeong yim no one wants to hear it.

most of you have never done any real research into jeong yim, but you instantly shut him down. why? doesn't jeong yim's lineage desrerve it's place in the history of choy lee fut?

No one including EJ can say what happened in jeong yim's and chan heung's time. what we do know is that clf's history needs an overhaul.

I just want to know with all of you who are half fut san hsk, and half chan family, why do you feel the hung sing kwoon's history is so bogus?

i'm not going to argue or pursuade, i just want to know why so many of you blatantly disregard half of your lineage? Especially when the chan family's account of Jeong Yim is basically wrong. I've tried to show you why they're wrong, but no one wants to listen? why?

[hskwarrior]

oh, and what a sucker. fu pow wants me banned soooooooo bad.

why? so he can fake the funk and act like he is an authority of CLF when he looks soooooo bad??????

if he could get me banned i'm sure he would pound his chest like a gorilla, and act like he did something real big.

as long as i'm around, i'm a thorn in his side. LMAO.

[@PLUGO]

people don't get other people banned. People get themselves banned.

[firepalm]

The Monk, Chan Heung, Tam Sam & Jeung Yim are deep into meaningful conversation about Asian girls and such, when Yip Man walks into the bar. The Monk whispers over to Jeung Yim, 'You think we have problems with the Internet and flame wars!' Tam Sam calls over to Yip Man to come join them, who happily obliges. Chan Heung calls over to the bartender to bring a beer for their friend. 'I hear we might be due for a new arrival from one of your clan!' exclaims Yip Man to the group. 'Really?', says Tam Sam. 'Yeh I guess you guys have heard about this Internet thing right?', asks Yip Man. They nod in acknowledgement. 'Well one of your guys apparently gets himself so worked up in fever that apparently he's going to just keel over onto the keyboard, Cardiac Arrest or something like that?', says Yip Man and adds, 'Arrivals says it should be anytime now!' The Monk, Jeung Yim and Tam Sam all get a look of concern over their faces. Chan Heung is about to ask what the problem is when Yip Man says, 'Oh and have you guys seen this girl Zhang Zhiyi?' Nodding & responding in unison the Choy Lee Fut crew says, 'Oh yeh and the village girls sure didn't look like that in our day!' With that Tam Sam calls for the waiter for some more peanuts.

[jon]

The empty bucket makes the most noise.

I dont practice Choy Lay Fut, from what i have seen it looks like a very solid combat system. If you really get bothered, you could all come and join the internal arts community. Then you not only get to argue who's teacher has a better linage but you can also accuse each other of being 'external'. If your wondering what the hell makes something 'external' I will tell you. What I do is always 'internal', ergo good, what you do is always 'external', ergo bad. You also get the joy of arguing over the exact placement of limbs in various postures, along with a healthy dose of discounting anything remotely different to what you personally practice. If that doesnt tickle your fancy, how about going along with the fantasy that anything old is automatically better?

On a more serious note nearly every skill known to man has linage wars, people argue over everything from painting art to magic tricks. People will always try to put themselves in a higher position due to there linage. Its a convenient way of not having themselves assessed though their skill in application.
My bunny from a hat skill is the real way, your bunny from a hat skill is simply a derivative. Never mind the fact the bunny is still pulled from the hat and the children still find it amazing.

Throw down your Choy Lay Fut, come join 'internal' classes there is so many superiority complexes you could be gaining.

Did I mention your all just lowly 'external' artists,

[gregdread]

While I've only been on this forum a few months, I've learned a lot from some, a little from others, and nothing at all from a few. I authored the recent article on HSK CLF in KFM, the subtitle of which was a quote from Ziggy Marley song, "If you don't know your past, you can't know your future." I think what HSKWarrior and others have done to preserve the history of CLF is quite an accomplishment, and tbey deserve all "props" for that. That said, the idea should not be too obsessive about one's own history, or abusive to the history others. The thing about history is, it's often wrong. People forget. Pages get lost. Pictures get destoryed. Considering the martial arts have gone through a "Boxer Rebellion" and "A Culture Revolution", it's amazing if anyone has been able to hold on to any of it.

A healthy debate on history is good and people can learn from it. But when it degenerates into name calling and lineage slamming, then no one learns anything. When I titled the article, The Future of Choy Lee Fut, I didn't want to come off like HSK was the only future for the CLF style, and I truly hope no one took it that way. What I was trying to convey is how it was important to keep the linegae (who's ever) going so that the art doesn't die, but lives on in the students who practice it. I think the best way we can honor our marital arts ancestors is to practice our style diligently, and show respect for others who practice theirs.

[Ben Gash]

Amen to that gregdread.
I also think that some people need to realise that this is an internet DISCUSSION forum, and that if you post something as fact then you are inviting people to make comment on it. If somebody points out that there's an inconsistency in what you've said, it is not a personal attack that warrants a torrent of abuse, it's simply what it's here for. Frankly, if you don't actually want to DISCUSS something here, then don't post it.

[GeneChing]

Any online forum is a community. We, the mods and admins, hold the keys, but we are nothing with out all of you, the members. If you think that we mods and admins can oversee everything with some sort of iron hand 24/7 on all of these forums, you have an unrealistic view of how a forum works. At best, we can arbitrate.

Banning is a token penalty. One of the things that has been exacerbating our situation on this forum has been some persistent banned members who have figured out ways to get around being banned. It's really quite easy, and getting easier, but I won't go into those details because that would open the floodgates to the few trolls that haven't figured it out yet. You might not realize it, but I am banning and deleting dozens of accounts every working day. That being said, DS is totally right. Only you can get yourself banned and un-banned.

The real problem here is how you deal with trolls. All the forums have trolls, but recently this forum, the Southern forum, has been the worst. Why? It's because you feed the trolls. Stop feeding the trolls. If you argue with them, that's feeding them. Trolls love to argue and you're a fool if you fall into that trap. The more you argue with them, the more trolls you'll attract. This leaves us with just one administrative question: should we ban the troll feeders?

[CLFNole]

To many that worm looks too juicy dangling from the hook.

[SevenStar]

The real problem here is how you deal with trolls. All the forums have trolls, but recently this forum, the Southern forum, has been the worst. Why? It's because you feed the trolls. Stop feeding the trolls. If you argue with them, that's feeding them. Trolls love to argue and you're a fool if you fall into that trap. The more you argue with them, the more trolls you'll attract. This leaves us with just one administrative question: should we ban the troll feeders?

Bingo. When I first started modding this forum, we had the same problem. Some trolls were banned. some left because nobody fed them. Some, who still post here to this day made up alternate names purely for the purpose of trolling - they know who they are.

the bottom line is that MA forums tend to WANT trolls. people are so ready to share their knowledge and prove themselves right that they jump at the chance to debate with someone who doesn't agree with them. We're all guilty of that, or have been at some point in time. However, as long as there is good discussion going, I don't see a huge issue with it (the discussion) - that is what these forums are about. Case in point, I'll be the first one to admit that I liked ego. He was a troll, but he sparked a lot of very good discussion as well. Long story short, if you know somebody is trolling, don't feed them. If they don't go away because other people are feeding them, then report it.

[SevenStar]

on a similar note, I'm sure several of you remember the time when people were coming to this forum and talking about how boring it was - there was much less discussion because all of the trolls were gone. Now, nobody has that complaint, as the trolls are rampant again. Like I said, forums like this tend to like trolls moreso than they admit...

[Green Cloud]

That's ok the trolls make it interesting, but then again who needs trolls when you got Seven Star the master of feeding the flame

[Fu-Pow]

No kidding...he's like a troll with mod powers.

[SevenStar]

dang, mma advocates are trolls now? Ah well, you guys feed me.