Originally Posted by
TaiChiBob
Greetings..
Focusing on such a limited aspect as sex to be an indicator of enlightenment is a fatally narrow perspective.. sex, or the lack thereof, is a small portion of the holistic condition of "enlightenment", if such a condition/concept is anything other than a contrivance of desired outcomes... It would be interesting to see how differently people perceive the concept of "Enlightenment".. what is the standard for determining who is or isn't "enlightened"?
Be well...
Agreed, and also, what you mentioned before about differentiating outward appearance from what's actually going on. It was well known through much of the history of zen in Japan that monks were drinking and whoring. So well known in fact, that there are passages in which you can read leaders complaining that their students spend more time at the brothel than in the zendo. Read some of the poetry of some of the greatest zen poets of Japan and they are loaded with references to drinking and sex. People living a monastic existence are removing themselves from reality in many respects. They are purposefully limiting the stimuli available in the environment, so that they can limit themselves to a purely "spiritual" life. In many Buddhist sects, this is viewed as ideally a temporary condition, as ultimately the true test is in applying the lessons learned in this environment to the much messier world out there.
Nairb: Not to beat a dead horse, as I bring this up all the time, but there are no enlightened people in my opinion, only enlightened actions. The very concept of impermanence precludes enlightenment from being a state. So, when you look at a particular type of person as being enlightened and then attribute that to their practicing a lifestyle that is a lot more absolute in theory than in reality, you make two errors. Lots of people don robes and chant and abstain from sex and end up with no more insight than a guy that goes to work at a gas station for 20 years. Some supposedly enlightened persons have done some pretty unenlightened things as well. Look at some of the writings associated with high level Buddhists in Japan before and during WWII. They managed to bend zen into fitting the mold of the militaristic state.
The cinnabun palm is deadly, especially when combined with the tomato kick. - TenTigers