Shaolin-do(JP) Sparring clips

[Judge Pen]

Take a deep breath. Some of us do not believe this in the slightest. Yet, when you get tied up in rank and respect what happens?

You tow the company line. I've seen the fight. If it is the one I'm thinking it is on you tube.

I think that's a different guy.

[godzillakungfu]

What was the date of the fight?

[BentMonk]

GKF- Yes that was a rant. It's good to know you don't subscribe to the "company line". I still have trouble understanding why some teachers in SD have that attitude when it is the exact opposite of what GM Sin wants. As I said I feel it's disrespectful to him. If these same teachers were as "tied up in rank and respect" as they expect their students to be, they would not blatantly disrespect their teacher. JMO

Now before this thread gets jacked...

JP you kicked major ass. As MK said that guy was showboating and being silly. Your heel to his face after the scissor sweep was great. You should have won, but as you said, "that's how it goes."

[Judge Pen]

GKF- Yes that was a rant. It's good to know you don't subscribe to the "company line". I still have trouble understanding why some teachers in SD have that attitude when it is the exact opposite of what GM Sin wants. As I said I feel it's disrespectful to him. If these same teachers were as "tied up in rank and respect" as they expect their students to be, they would not blatantly disrespect their teacher. JMO

Now before this thread gets jacked...

JP you kicked major ass. As MK said that guy was showboating and being silly. Your heel to his face after the scissor sweep was great. You should have won, but as you said, "that's how it goes."

That was the round I won. I haven't posted the rounds I lost. I'm having "technical difficulties" so it may be a while before I get back to posting the other rounds. He adapted a lot the next two rounds. BTW, yu shan was one of the judges on the corner.

[Radhnoti]

Great job JP.

Not to drag this thread OT...

When the SD school I was a part of had set aside a special night for instructors from other styles to come in and give us a perspective on their art, we were told to stop immediately. Also, when my old instructor asked permission to do presentations with other local instructors he was told not to show in public any legitimate material. He ended up doing Tai Chi 24 since it's so universal and really no one could argue it's "secret" material. Both instructions were passed down from a Master, my instructor was a 3rd black.
I DO understand that some aikido guy co-opted a bit of the SD material for his school...but every SD instructor I was exposed to, some Masters, stressed a secretiveness with the material and an exclusivity with their school/style.

Bent Monk - "This closed minded, secretive crap is "frowned upon" here in the South."

I'm further south than you are BM.

[Golden Tiger]

Rad,

I am aware of that stuff but I would like say that it is not "standard policy". There are those out there that are a tad high and mighty about keeping everything secret and if you find one like that, I would reccomend that you go else were. But as far as showing things, all the demos we have contain what we would consider the high level "secret" stuff, un cut, un edited.

my instructor was a 3rd black.

I saw where he was promoted to 6th or somewhere close not to long ago. Send him congrats from GT (seeing that I was banned from his site for some reason).

[Radhnoti]

GT, the board crashed and he's just now getting around to putting it back up, the http is different now if you haven't gone from Bryan's home page. I've just today re-joined his board myself. He's been named a coach (and I think he's competing) at the World Games (a qualifier for the Good Will Games) in Hawaii. Which shocks the heck out of me, he never really seemed to like that sort of thing. I think it's tied in with the certification you alluded to in your post. He did join an organization and based on his performance...which included video tapes of him teaching his own system, a panel of judges that tested him in person up in Ohio on forms/general martial knowledge, etc....and including his time studying... they ranked him 6th in his own system. Which cracks me up. How many folks to you know that look to certify themselves in their own system/creation. My understanding is that it was a 3+ year process to be certified, pretty much when he let the SD material go to teach his own thing he got in contact with them. He was flattered they ranked him 6th...but I don't think I've heard him mention it beyond the articles that organization put into the papers of all the surrounding towns.

GT - "I am aware of that stuff but I would like say that it is not "standard policy"."

You may be right. I can only speak of my specific experience with any authority, though I do know of others I've spoken to across the country (TWS obviously comes to mind as he was accused of being an Ng family spy) who indicate they've had similar experiences. Hey, it's Chinese martial arts, right? There's supposed to be "closed" door stuff and secret techniques.

[SanHeChuan]

Originally Posted by Judge Pen
As for my strategy, I feel that in most encounters that I'm an effective enough counter-puncher and kicker to quickly gain the advantage if we wern't dealing with rules and pads, but, to answer your point, if running ment surviving, then yes it is an effective an dintelligent strategy if the opportunity is there. If its a street encounter-then if I survive (relatviely un-harmed) then I've won.

What if he could run faster than you too? The point I was trying to make is that not all your weapons are physical. When two opponents are matched equally or greater than you, you have to use your mind to find victory.

Your strategy in the first match was to move straight in and use your superior physical abilities to over come. It looked like you were trying to use your reach where Mr. Tai Chi would close in for the throw. Your reaction then was to throw chain punches. Superior force is not the kind of strategy I'm looking for.

Originally Posted by Judge Pen Now most of his handswere over-the-top smacking which were annoying (and with his loger fingernails hurt a little bit on the top of the head). Also he became aware that I would absorb and shed his side and round-house kicks, so he started incorpating more hook kicks. I tried to move insdie of them to take any power off of them (I never was squarely hit with one) but he did adapt to what I was trying to do to him.

This was a little more of what I wanted to see, which is why I was mostly commenting on the first clip. It was just easier to read the first match. Your quote tells me you were reading your opponent, and looking to figuratively "side step" his attacks. "Absorbing" while it can be effective, all it really means is that he caught you before you could move out of the way or deflect.

I wanted to see you read, predict, maneuver, and counter.
"Locate, close with, and destroy through fire and maneuver"

Deny (Guard), Detect (Read), Deception (Draw out)

Deny (Guard), First you Identify your weaknesses, etc.
Detect (Read), Then you Identify his, etc.
Both of which to include, but not limited to: Guard, Stance, Rhythm, Timing, Predictability of attack, etc.
Deception (Draw out) Leave your self open, so that he can attack you in a predictable way, etc.

Knowing when, where, and how he will attack will allow you to move out of the way and counter with little effort. You don't have to use Superior force if you understand yourself and your opponent.

故曰：知彼知己，百戰不殆；不知彼而知己，一勝一負；不知彼，不知己，每戰必敗
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle. - Sun Tzu

or

知己知彼, 百戰百勝
If you know both yourself and your enemy, you will come out of one hundred battles with one hundred victories.

I'm not saying by any means that you fought poorly. I'm just saying these are things you can think and improve on. These are principals I'm currently trying to teach, so there may be a bit of projecting going on my part.

[tattooedmonk]

"A few people compete occasionally. It is frowned upon in the West. If you do compete they want you to divorce yourself from the school. No names, uniforms, or shirts, that say Chinese Shao-Lin Center."

What a crock! This is staright up NOT what GM Sin has ever wanted. He wants everyone to know and respect SD. What is the purpose behind this narrow minded BS? Recently a MMA event was held in Louisville. A student under Senior Master Gary Mullins walked to the ring wearing his SD shirt, took it off and promptly dismantled his opponent using only the skills he learned in SD. The last time I heard GM Sin address a very large body of SD students, he spoke of making SD more known and respected everywhere. Why would any student of GM Sin go so blatantly against his wishes as the above quote shows they have? IMO that is a slap in GM Sin's face. The Shao-Lin Center "in the West" would not exist without GM Sin. Why would you want to perpetuate the assumptions made by so many about SD? Crossing hands with other MAs offers nothing but growth for both parties. What possible reason could any teacher have for discouraging the growth of their students? Win lose, or draw any time different arts cross hands it brings respect to both. To hide from such good things makes no sense. This closed minded, secretive crap is "frowned upon" here in the South.

hahahah

This is how I felt and still feel...I did a tournament back in '95 and caught alot of bullshido for it ....

and the funny thing is that my master at the time ( Brian Devor ) actually did not mind at all.....

..... in addition a few years later he let a small group of us go to san diego ( UCSD)(a Shaolin Do event )to learn the the GreanDragon Broadsword form and the White ape steals the peach ....... he and I (as well as anyone who went)got a bunch of bullshido about it.... mostly because the Soards and their group in Denver/Boulder did not get to see it first .....whhhhhaaaan whhhhhaaan whhhhaaaan ( **** politics).....they even gave GM Sin a bunch of bullshido for inviting us and teaching it to us( who's system is this anyways???)

Back in like '92 -'93 my first instructor use to invite other schools in for sparring as well as teach seminars ( judo master for down and ground) and Tae Kwon Do for punching and kicking class mostly kicking...)..it was fun and everyone got something out of it...what was even more fun was watching our blues and yellows mix it up with brown belts from these other styles and actually dominate... as well as our greens, browns mixing it up and dominating blackbelts ....Is this not how Shaolin of old did things??? Can this be bad for the schools???

....the mind set and the line of thinking in the west coast CSC's is just ass backwards...Hell anyone affiliated with CSC's can not even join SDA...what kind of bullshido is that??

You all know what causes this type of thinking and belief ....FEAR!! ...and why are they afraid?? because of the schools lack of a true functional philosophy and a lack of openmindedness to anything other than what they think and believe...

if you have your own Ideas and/or think for yourself you will get stripped of rank and will be kicked out of the system...

you will continue to hear me vent things like this from time to time..... hope you do not mind too much. I will keep it to a minimum......

[godzillakungfu]

Ha HA HA if you only knew the whole truth. Guess who was a memeber of the SDA??

[tattooedmonk]

Ha HA HA if you only knew the whole truth. Guess who was a memeber of the SDA??

enlighten me...

....uuuhhhh you!!?!? hahaha not surprising ...I know many people did ...probably still do...

[BoulderDawg]

But I've noticed a lot of the SD cloak and dagger secret stuff too. The first night I was there I casually asked a black belt "Does this school participate in competition?"....The guy seemed offended at the suggestion.

Also I've noticed the secret nature of some of the training. A few people are reluctant to work with you on forms unless it's been cleared by the master and don't even ask to share notes on a form.....GOD FORBID!!!!!

Personally I'm fairly laid back about it and have worked on forms outside of class. However I know if these comments got out to the wrong people I would be in some hot water........Especially since GM Sin The is coming to town later this month.

All that said I think the training is top notch and I'm very pleased with it. I don't know why the security is so tight! But I do respect it.

[Judge Pen]

What if he could run faster than you too? The point I was trying to make is that not all your weapons are physical. When two opponents are matched equally or greater than you, you have to use your mind to find victory.

Your strategy in the first match was to move straight in and use your superior physical abilities to over come. It looked like you were trying to use your reach where Mr. Tai Chi would close in for the throw. Your reaction then was to throw chain punches. Superior force is not the kind of strategy I'm looking for.

But I don't think I was physically more gifted then the first fighter. I figured out, in the first exchange, that I was the better striker. So I feel its a bit presumptious for you to assume that I displayed poor strategy. If I know that my opponent is weaker than me in one area, and I exploit it to my advantage, did I not fight with an integrated mind and body? I mean, everyone has a plan until they get hit. Soliders have strategy until the first shot is fired.

And my style is to counter--to take an attack and work off of it to my advantage. Obviously I can improve, but what I do works well enough. Besides, its easy to be critical of someone else. I'd love to see you post a clip of you doing what you are advocating.

I wish you well in your path. Its easier to talk about an ideal than to live it.

[Judge Pen]

But I've noticed a lot of the SD cloak and dagger secret stuff too. The first night I was there I casually asked a black belt "Does this school participate in competition?"....The guy seemed offended at the suggestion.

Also I've noticed the secret nature of some of the training. A few people are reluctant to work with you on forms unless it's been cleared by the master and don't even ask to share notes on a form.....GOD FORBID!!!!!

Personally I'm fairly laid back about it and have worked on forms outside of class. However I know if these comments got out to the wrong people I would be in some hot water........Especially since GM Sin The is coming to town later this month.

All that said I think the training is top notch and I'm very pleased with it. I don't know why the security is so tight! But I do respect it.

It shouldn't be that way (bs secretive). It's bad karma. I'll work with and teach anyone that wants to learn from me. Many of them go on to be better than me. I'm proud of that.

[tattooedmonk]

It shouldn't be that way (bs secretive). It's bad karma. I'll work with and teach anyone that wants to learn from me. Many of them go on to be better than me. I'm proud of that.

as they should!!