Regarding fujow's video post

[hskwarrior]

Don't worry, I'm not on here for long. Don't want to be anymore. I feel so much more peaceful since I've been gone, been working things out with DFW and running my classes. So no worries folks.

But the one thing about the kneel horse is that everyone does it different. Some like the one with the shin and ankle on the floor. For "ME" I prefer the halfway point for that horse. The way we do it is from say ping ma is turn the waist lift the heel and find that middle ground. I don't like (not saying it's wrong-just don't like it) it because with your leg so flush to the ground it won't take much to stomp down on it, and I feel it would leave you in a more vulnerable position.

Although, I do see some advantages. Doing that horse seems similar to mma shooting in to grab hold and the back leg kinda drags on the floor. it would also provide you with a better chance to get under someone.

But as a street fighter, that leg being so damm close to the floor is so inviting for a leg stomp.

But I don't think anyone is wrong, as long as the have a rhyme and reason for doing it that way.

going to texas in 2 weeks, see some of you there at tai chi legacy.

peace.

[CLFNole]

Frank:

I see what you are saying about the leg being exposed; however whether you do it the way we do or with the ball of the foot the leg is more or less exposed the same way. I see this stance as more of a transition stance and not something you would want to stay in for any extended period of time when fighting.

Have fun in Texas your boy will be going so you can discuss this with him and he could show you what I mean.

[hskwarrior]

I understand what you mean as well.

Training with live blades that can sever a limb was a great way for me to sharpen my focus and attention during practice. The one thing that taught me was to eradicate the possibility for mistakes, and in a typical fast paced street fight, i think the horse I described is for close up to mid range fighting.

The one you describe I feel is great for keeping a distance. But to each his own, and hopefully each one has developed strengths in those certain horses.

So in retrospect, there's three different ways out there to execute this horse stance. A mid level kneel, a tripod type kneel, and the one with the complete lower leg parallel to the floor. Hmmmm. Interesting.

At least we have something to choose from huh?

peace.

[lkfmdc]

Just a casual observation, but is there any thread about Choy Lay Fut that doesn't have some sort of disagreement and ill feeling?

(Glad I only do Lama, so much easier, no one does it, nothing to argue about)

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I think, CLF Nole, you are missing the point. I do not hold a patent on any KF information or techniques. I am not right or wrong, the technique is.

And as to your arguement, of; 'as long as it works', who is to say?

When did you use it in combat? Have you used it in sparring? Whom have you sparred against? Do you seem my point? How do you know it 'works?'

Additionally, use some common sense. If you were using it for real, in the street, and you quickly dropped down and hit your ankle or knee against the concrete, what do you think would happen? YOU WOULD INJURE YOURSELF.

If that isn't convicing in and of itself, take my previous advice. Ask a person who is an expert in human anatomy or excercise physiology; see what they tell you. Hell, ask a personal trainer for their opinion. Actually, ask a layman, ask someone who has no experience in the arts - it doesn't take an expert to see that you are putting you leg in an unusual position, one that looks like it's broken. Not to mention the uneven stress on the knee joint and tendons.

Take my advise, don't take my advise. My life will not change as a result. But if you can open your mind and accept the possiblity that I am right, ...maybe your life will change.

__________________________

And I agree that some techniques lend themselves to 'variations'. Even so, a Horse is a horse. Because you want to do it with your feet wider than your knees, and you want to say that it 'works', doesn't make it right.

How many ways can you throw a ping choih? (Horizontal/Level Fist) You can say there are many, but there is one.

[fu jow]

my only problem with this whole thread is this...ive been doing kung fu for all of 2 years. i dont pretend to do anything perfectly, in fact i do lots of things sloppily, too high, too low, too fast, too slow. but i love clf and learning it as an artform, and for excersize, and self defence ( if need be) . i also love seeing other peoples takes on the same style. but i dont know very much about it. yet. however, i have some life experience. enough atleast to know that telling someone who goes to an entirely different school, that the way he or she does a technique is simply wrong. (lets not even go into the audacity to say an entire lineage is wrong.) if (in your opinion ) there is a more effective way to excecute something, then feel free to share it. but to say that anything you do is the only/right way of doing something seems (to me) just a little bit outrageous. in fact, i think thats why i dont care for most right wing fundamentalist christians. because, lets face it, there really is more than one way to pray. as far as i know, people have been using the side of, and the top of their foot in gwai ma for longer than any of has even been alive. in fact, a good friend of mine goes to another well known clf masters school in this city, and his kung fu looks entirely different. i mean, i couldnt even recognize most of it. but i understand that its different. very good. and very different. i prefer our schools aestetic, and style. but not because we do it the right way.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

WOW, WOW.

Ok, so you're practicing for 2 years. If that's the case, why are you arguing at all? You should be 'listening'.

And although I can appreciate you offering examples that you think may shed a relevent light onto this discussion, I reject them.

Yes, I said it. I reject them.

Kung-Fu has many tech's that have variations, but there are also constants as well. There are certain things, that are not done 3 ways, but 1 way. Is that difficult for you to accept?

Train in your repected art for another 20 years, and then we can talk some more.

If any of you think I am being a jerk, it's not my intention. And I'm all for diplomacy; but if Chan Heung himself were here in the flesh, I'd tell him it was wrong and then I'd show him. Either he'd agree or he'd show me different. Until someone else can explain to me why THAT KNEELING STANCE is correct, and/or show me why it's correct, I'll stick with praticing and teaching it my way.

I can argue why it's wrong. Can you or anyone else argue why it's right?

[fu jow]

oh but i am listening. and im learning alot. in fact, all of your advice in regards to this stance was excellent. i even tried it different ways at school today. and finally, i think you should keep practicing and teaching it to your students, your way.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I'm okay with you thinking that! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't take things on this forum personally.

[Fu-Pow]

I agree with Lama Pai Sifu. Putting your knee/shin/ankle on the ground is not a good way to do it. You put pressure on the outside of the knee joint which could lead to injury. It's bad body mechanics.

I've seen LKH do it before and I never understood why. I still don't.

Mak Sifu taught us two versions of Lok Gwai Mah, one is more square shaped like they play it in Hung Ga (I know because I learned the same version from my Hung Ga sifu). The feet are not on the same "line."

The other one has the feet in more of straight line and is used mostly for training but can also be used if you are overcoming a lot of forward momentum.

In neither case do we put anything but feet on the ground.

[hskwarrior]

fu jow,

the only way for you to improve is to critique your own video. All of us can only offer suggestions. Ultimately, your gung fu is yours, you move your way, or make it your way. don't become a carbon copy.

We can make suggestions all day.

you know what happens when you have too many cooks in the kitchen.

[hskwarrior]

Instead of fighting about whose way is the correct way, or even what way is the correct way, we should be comparing notes to why we like it the way we do it.

Each one of us is different, move different, like different aspects of gung fu. What might work for some may not work for others. This is why evolution and modification for self development (gung fu-wise) is so important.

Choy Lee Fut is ALWAYS gonna look different from school to school, including schools and it's sub-branches. Not everyone is built a certain way, so it's unfair to say that someone is doing a technique wrong without understanding the meaning behind what you think they are doing wrong.

The great thing about CLF is the diversity in applications, performance, concepts, and theories which goes back to the old saying....."it can take you three life times to master CLF."

peace.

[fu jow]

did i get rejected? ****it! honestly, all of the sweeps and kneeling, and chang fu business is hard on my body. it makes me feel old. but your right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and just for the record, i totaly respect yours.

[fu jow]

well said hsk.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

LOL, no, Fu Jow, you didn't get rejected, I just said that I didn't think the comparison examples were relevent.

Keep on training and keep up the good work.