The Truth About Chan Tai Sam

[Lama Pai Sifu]

The Cat is out of the Bag!

[cjurakpt]

The Cat is out of the Bag!

which cat, what bag?

[lkfmdc]

which cat, what bag?

As soon as we saw this post, Mike and I immediately bought air line tickets to Beijing. We are going to challenge Mark under old Shaolin rules, there are 72 tactics that are legal and 36 tactics that are illegal. Tonight we go to the fortune teller to pick the correct astrological date for the first challenge, in a series of 108.



Actually, Mike and I are probably gonna be in Beijing for some other reason and I think probably Mark isn't in Beijing anyway

[cjurakpt]

Actually, Mike and I are probably gonna be in Beijing for some other reason and I think probably Mark isn't in Beijing anyway

actually, I am Mark, cleverly disguisehed and this whole thing was a ruse just to get you guys to waster your money on plane fair to Beijing! Ha HAAA!

so, seriously, what's the occasion for you guys going?

[lkfmdc]

I am Mark!

[cjurakpt]

I am Mark!

I love you, Mark...

[David Jamieson]

1st post and it has to be a shit rant.

I wonder if the mods will delete this as it should be tanked into the crudhole.

[PangQuan]

lol @ "mark"

[lkfmdc]

I love you, Mark...

For the record, I enjoy oysters, not snails

[cjurakpt]

For the record, I enjoy oysters, not snails

there are some who say that the eating of snails is more than...no, wait, that is to say, there are some snails who were once eating oysters and...no, that's not it - eating oysters is good for your digestion, whereas snails can give you gas...

oh, never mind...

[lkfmdc]

since we are on food topics.....

beans, beans
the musical fruit
the more you eat
the more you toot



My next post will be entitled

"The Truth about Sam Dum Goy"

[spite1]

Quoting Ross:
"A certain Bak Mei sifu talked some crap about sifu once. He called him up and asked him if he should come down to his school some time? That sifu the next day told all his students never to talk badly about CTS..."

Ross, why don't you name a name? Your typical M.O. with such issues - Cleverly saying someting - without committing to saying anything.

What Pak Mei Sifu talked crap about your Sifu? Which one (as you imply here) had a fear of your late Sifu? And did my Sifu then eat his words???
Say something Ross - commit to something.

OK - well...
Here's a reiteration of the way it actually went down; posted on the southern forum by my sihing a while back - after this needed to be cleared up with Mike Parella (no disrespect to you intended at all, Mike - that thread had a friendly outcome):


Very respectfully worded by sihing IMO:

"As for what was spoken, I can say that at least on Sifu Chan's part, at no time did he have any animosity, hostile, ill or any negative words to say. Rather it was a tone of respect and friendship. In fact, the trivial incident at hand quickly shifted gears to reminiscing about Great Master Cheung Lai Cheun. You know how Chan Tai San gets when he speaks and gets excited - (as addressed to Kwong Sifu) "your Sifu (Cheung Lai Cheun) has very good kungfu,...very dangerous hands...very poisonous!...and so on" Conversation ended with let's go and "yum cha" when we have the chance.

Afterwards, I asked Sifu Chan have you met Sifu Kwong before? He said, " no", but he stated he did hear he was Cheung Lai Cheun's todei (student) during his(Chan Tai San)stay in Hong Kong after immigrating from China.

As far as what Sifu Kwong has told me, he never said any words or anything similar to that which you mentioned above. I am not sure what is the source of this information, but my feelings is that it may be some 3rd party who are interested in promoting conflict.
...

Anyway, I hope that this will help lighten any existing tension that may or may not have existed in the past or present, because this was not how Sifu Chan in life wanted the relation between him and Sifu Kwong to be."

And as far as my fellow sihing and sidai...none of us have ever heard our Sifu say anything negative about yours.
But you choose to take the opposite approach.
Please let me know if you want to continue this.

- Matt Martin

[lkfmdc]

Ross, why don't you name a name?

Well, I was trying to avoid that sifu's embarassment, but since YOU want to bring it up, yes, it was Kwong Man Fong.

And as far as my fellow sihing and sidai...none of us have ever heard our Sifu say anything negative about yours.

That's quite possible, depending upon when you were with your sifu. Because your sifu did "eat his words" and never said anything negative about Chan Tai San again after the phone call....

I am not sure what is the source of this information, but my feelings is that it may be some 3rd party who are interested in promoting conflict.

Well, hate to upset you, but your "feelings" are wrong. I was there when Sifu Chan made the phone call, in fact I dialed the number for him as he had forgot his reading glasses. I then sat and listened to the whole conversation....

As for what "actually went down", since you want to get into DETAILS... Sifu Chan had a student (no need to drag his name into it, sorry if that upsets you) who went to Sifu Kwong to also learn. Sifu Kwong and some of the Si-Hing told him and I quote that "Sifu Chan Tai San's Bak Mei is fake"...

Since the student in question was CHinese, he went back and told Sifu Chan. Thus the phone call...

So, if you want to get technical, Chan Tai San never had anything negative to say about your sifu. Your sifu on the other hand did have some negative stuff to say, at least in his closed door classes, about Chan Tai San. When called on it (literally), he stepped back and never did it again.

But you have a nice day, really

[spite1]

your response is well-noted.

[Hai_To]

David,

I thought that misunderstanding had been laid to rest…quite amicably too, if I recall correctly. I remember this being discussed on the Southern Kung Fu Online Community earlier this year by Mike Parella and Kenny Chin. That discussion seemed to resolve the situation, and reveal it for what it was…a misunderstanding.

The original posting http://southernkungfu.forumco.com/to...hichpage~2.asp:

Hey, Bok Mei people, have you ever heard that Cheung Lai-Chung re-structured the BM forms? Many years ago, some Kwong Man-Fong people tried to tell one of my students that my Sifu, Chan Tai-San, didn't have the 'real' Bok Mei - because our forms were different. Kwong Man-Fong told his students Chan Tai-San learned Bok Mei before CLC changed it (and he told them not to **** us off).

And the response http://southernkungfu.forumco.com/to...hichpage~3.asp:

Hi Mike how are you doing? It was good to see all you guys again, unfortunately it wasn't the best of circumstances at the funeral.

I usually don't do much reading on these martial art BBS, but I was recently informed of this matter. Normally, all information and emails are answered collectively by my Sihings/Sidai and Sifu under the above name. But I felt that I should comment individually because I have first hand knowledge about the conversation between Sifu Chan and Sifu Kwong. I was still learning from Sifu Chan at the time and was at his home when they spoke. As a matter of fact I was the one who dialed the telephone number. As you know he was in his senior years and he frequently asked all of us at one time or another to dial the phone for him.

As for what was spoken, I can say that at least on Sifu Chan's part, at no time did he have any animosity, hostile, ill or any negative words to say. Rather it was a tone of respect and friendship. In fact, the trivial incident at hand quickly shifted gears to reminiscing about Great Master Cheung Lai Cheun. You know how Chan Tai San gets when he speaks and gets excited - (as addressed to Kwong Sifu) "your Sifu (Cheung Lai Cheun) has very good kungfu,...very dangerous hands...very poisonous!...and so on" Conversation ended with let's go and "yum cha" when we have the chance.

Afterwards, I asked Sifu Chan have you met Sifu Kwong before? He said, " no", but he stated he did hear he was Cheung Lai Cheun's todei (student) during his(Chan Tai San)stay in Hong Kong after immigrating from China.

As far as what Sifu Kwong has told me, he never said any words or anything similar to that which you mentioned above. I am not sure what is the source of this information, but my feelings is that it may be some 3rd party who are interested in promoting conflict.

I did not know at the time whose number I was dialing nor do I know how he got Sifu Kwong's number. I guess it would not be hard considering many of Cheung Lai Cheun's students were still alive in NYC's Chinatown and were members of the Chin Family Association, such as Chan Seu Do, Chan Ho Bok, Chan Jim Kee, Chan Wor (Chan Do's student who intro me to Kwong Sifu). Sadly most of these people have passed on. Only 3 direct students of Cheung Lai Chun left in NYC- Chan Seu Do, my Sifu and the most senior student in NYC Yeun Bun Ho (not sure the proper spelling of his name, romanizing the sound from Toi San dialect)whom my father has seen as of late last year in his upper 80's now.

Anyway, I hope that this will help lighten any existing tension that may or may not have existed in the past or present, because this was not how Sifu Chan in life wanted the relation between him and Sifu Kwong to be.

take care, and hope to see you again soon.
Kenneth Chin

Kenny, great to hear from you! Thanks so much for the post. I actually heard about the conversation from one of our classmates - but you know how words can get switched around to suit peoples needs (or fantasies!). I appologized to your classmate (or the collective) for any misunderstanding to promote bad will between us - not my intention at all.

My real intention, from the earlier post, was to discuss if anyone had versions of BM that were different from the current versions being taught. You would be a good person to speak to, because you learned BM from Sifu CTS and are training with Sifu KMF. I'm very curious to know about the forms/techniques being different - what have you learned/observed about this?

We know that Sifu CTS had limited first hand training with Sifu CLC, a bit with him in the army and when he visited his friend (CLC student) at the school. I don't even remember the friend's name, but I've got it written down somewhere....

Anyhow, I don't mind discussing it on the forum, but you are more than welcome to email me at kungfu531@aol.com so we can chat futher. Great to hear from you, and I look forward to seeing you soon.


PS, I would like to meet Sifu CLC's most senior student whom you mentioned in the post. Can you arrange this?


Best of luck in your training,

Sifu Michael Parrella

Here is the thread that was referenced. As you can see, Kenny and Mike were very polite and the whole situation was cleared up. Why do you feel the need to rehash this?