Shaolin Vagabond Guy

[The Xia]

I've seen plenty of bad kung fu. That's nothing new. What struck me about this particular case is this guy's look. It would be funny to see people’s reactions as he walked through a Chinatown.

[The Xia]

This guy is garbage if he is a sifu.

Yeah, he is a sifu......
I wonder who would go to someone that looked like that. I can see laymen getting fooled by B.S. martial arts but this guys look should chase away anyone with an ounce of sanity.

[Flying-Monkey]

He is probably one of those guys who learns from a video on Friday and teaches on Saturday.

If I was him, I would tell my students to call me Sihing (not sifu)and charge less. This is because of the fact that I would be still learning. And if I get ranked by Wing Lam or other video learning system, I would change my title to sifu.

[Wood Dragon]

Boo Manchu.

[Ravenshaw]

I've commented on some of this guy's videos.

Not only is he a beginner, he clearly learned those sets from my teacher's bak siu lum video tapes. He mimics some of the idiosyncracies found in those tapes. I wonder if brother Gene would come to the same conclusion.

A person of this skill who learned from videos... teaching? I'm offended for my school, the bak siu lum system, and martial arts as a whole. We don't need more poseur "masters" giving everyone a bad name.

[Samurai Jack]

Which brings up a point I've been thinking about. Several of my past teachers have sold instructional videos. I have heard stories of people learning from the videos, then claiming to have learned from the teacher who put out the video. Of course this makes my teachers angry. Technically the video students who do this are lying, but maybe they feel okay about it since the teacher made the video that they learned from. Anyhow, if this is a real quality control concern to the teacher, why not stop producing the videos? My teachers say they invest too much money to do that, and who am I to argue? It's thier decision.

I guess it's a matter of priorities. Still, when you put out instructional videos, aren't you pretty much saying "You can learn from this video?" I mean, an ethical teacher wouldn't sell an instructional video that he felt people couldn't learn from, right? And if you are going there, then why is it unreasonable to assume that if the video student has "learned it" that he can't "teach it?"

Just playing devil's advocate, but I think these are REALLY important questions nonetheless.

[Ravenshaw]

I'm not sure. I've only ever used videos for information and review, never as a replacement for a teacher.

It may be possible for a person to learn kung fu from a video, but he's at a disadvantage no matter how you look at it. It would be hard to do, if it can be done, and would require a great amount of self-assessment and honesty to develop the skills to a high level. Maybe he got as far as he could with the video and thought he was good enough to teach. Judging by his performance, he's not really qualified to make that judgment.

When I worked at my sifu's store, people would call in to ask if learning from the videos enabled them to teach the material as part of the lineage. The answer I was told to give was a firm "no." The reasoning was that, since even actual students must recieve permission from our sifu to teach what they've learned, why should video students be given free license? There would be no quality control and, considering the particularly difficult medium, video students already have almost none.

Now, what bothers me personally here is that my sifu asked me to coach the kids' class at his school after I spent a few years learning. He knew me, he and my older brothers taught me, and he knew my level of understanding well enough to judge whether he could rely on me to teach the basics. So even though I learned from the teacher of the school, I needed his permission before teaching what I'd learned. A video student, who only has some footage of a teacher to follow - and whose skills my sifu was not familiar with and could not trust - gets to teach without any sort of approval, just because he felt he was good enough?

One needs permission if their intention is to teach as part of a lineage or school.

[David Jamieson]

hey ravenshaw, in wing lams version of the set does it have those side steps and use the pound mortar back fist instead of swing hammer fist?

I learned the set differently from what's shown there.

also, any of you guys ever seen yang jwing mings version of this set, it's completely different.

no comment on the vid other than ive seen worse and ive seen better.

[Royal Dragon]

From YouTube:

This is a very basic form performed by my Sifu Glen Bullock. ... (more) (less)

It looks like he is trying to choreagraph his moves to the drum.

[Samurai Jack]

Well, I can't speak for your Sifu's tapes at all, and it isn't my intention to do so. I used to own a set of James McNiel's Hsing-i tapes because he is from the same lineage as my teacher. On the tapes he would say things like, "Be proud! You are learning Hsing-i!" I owned two John Painter tapes at one time, and on those tapes he said, "Once you have learned this set, you can move on to the next tape." George Xu tapes said things like, "Follow along with these movements until you've mastered the form." I currently own a set of Aikido for Police tapes, and the instructor constantly states that cops should watch the tapes and practice with thier partners.

I have never seen an instructional video that said, "We're just demonstrating... you can't learn from these tapes." I mean what would be the point, right? Who's going to buy instructional tapes when they are told they can't learn from them?

I'll bet when you told the people at the store they couldn't learn from your tapes they didn't buy them right?

My point is that for those teachers who don't want to see thier arts being hijacked by fakers, they shouldn't be putting the tapes out in the first place. If they do, and they are implying or outright stating that someone CAN learn from the tapes, then maybe they are part of the problem.

[golden arhat]

no joke you cn see what i commented i'm kungfufreddy on there he is truly awful did nyone see the iron shirt demo with him nd a cut waxwood staff he gives white people an even worse reputation
DISGRACEFUL

[David Jamieson]

I've made more or less the same argument before samurai jack.

It's not so much that you can't learn from tapes because you can.
The problem comes when someone learns from tapes, then hones in on claims of representing the style without meeting the criteria to be a representative of the style.

In other words, it's ok to learn em and practice em and show em, but to say that you are representative of a style based off of what you actually have is where it get's people's goats.

Beginners in general for the most part and in my experience do not grasp the teachings in tape form. And tapes often have little to say about refined details such as where to issue force, the structure and breathing of each combination within a set, several of the variative applications etc etc etc.

For someone who has spent a few years studying a decent martial art, I think they would surmise a lot of that stuff and would have an easier go of it. they would get the simple concepts such as expelling breath when striking and consuming breath when readying, mechanical structure and how it optimizes force issuance and so on. These are things that get worked on with regular opractice and foundational schooling in a given martial art and can be mapped onto other martial arts.

forms can also show us a technique that may be performed incorrectly, but because you may know correct mechanics and kinesiology, you could self correct the same technique when you do it.

But I don't think that people who release tapes and instructional videos to "expect" to get what is tantamount to stolen from and usurped in what they offer. It is not the fault of someone to spread Kungfu, if there is any blame it is in those people with incorrect intention with what they are going to do with whatever forms they have learned or taugfht themselves using video and self instruction only.

when it's(self instruction from other media) combined with the oral transmission tradition, the result is different and the non-direct media is an excellent resource to learn new things from both in a down to earth sense and in an artistic expression sense not to mention cultivation and healthful practice.

after all, why is it valid to learn for real techniques from a sbg dvd set and not from traditional format instruction. Different approaches to the same thing. And addressing different types of learners and their needs.

[Wood Dragon]

Videos serve a purpose.

They are, however, a reference tool.

Much like, when you learn German, you own and use a German/English dictionary. The dictionary itself does not teach anything. It simply allows you to doublecheck your current skillset.

[SPJ]

Some people are just having fun.

We have a local Chinese church and culture center. They both have Tai Chi classes. The teachers are from Beijing Wushu team and one year national champ.

There are some lessons for young and old. There are no classics or fighting apps etc. Only the basic exercises, short forms, and basic push hands and breathing exercises.

My point is that a teach has to be clear on his or her background. not claiming a lineage if he or she does not have one.

Both Tai Chi teachers SAID that they are "schooled" from Wushu academy and they are only familiar or formerly trained with the school material etc.

On hair do;

some people are very serious about that. and yet some are just having fun.

In Qing era, if you lose your pony tail, it is a seditious offense and punished by losing your head.

--

[tattooedmonk]

Videos serve a purpose.

They are, however, a reference tool.

Much like, when you learn German, you own and use a German/English dictionary. The dictionary itself does not teach anything. It simply allows you to doublecheck your current skillset.

that this is actual what the purpose of this tape was for?demonstration and as a teaching aid to his students??and not a performance ..per se???