Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Judge Pen]

You know if most of the CMA people went to Bullshido they would jump all over you about your style being crap and nothing you say or do would change their minds.
It seems to be that way with Shaolin-Do here.

I have almost never met a Shaolin-Do student who was a black Belt/Sash who was rude and never one that wasnt out of shape.

The thing is they are happy with their Art and make positive changes in alot of people. Why cant you bashers just let them be? They are not doing anything to anyone are they?
To be attacked as offen as they are on here and still be as friendly as they are is a statement on their art.
Just a thought.

Thanks. I know you have had plenty of opportunity to meet SD people too. It seems that every town in Eastern Kentucky have a school and there are many students running aournd up there.

[Judge Pen]

I had heard that about a few schools. Living here in Ky Ive been exposed to manny Shaolin-Do students and masters. Not took the first class of it but im thinking about giving them a try along with my Jitsu.

Shhhhh. You don't want to lose credibilty around here.

[JuJitsuJoe]

Heh, I think I pretty much figured out that there is always going to be someone who dont aprove of something I do. The fact that im happy with myself and that I do the best I can with what I have is more than enoughf for me.

I got friends that take kenpo, hapkido, BJJ, Ng Family Kung Fu, and yes Shaolin-Do. We all get along pretty well too. I think that the distance and unpersonal nature of a message board makes people come off alot less friendly than they ever would in real life to each other.

Hey Judgepen do you know David Hay? He is one of our black belts who use to train in Shaolin-Do about the same time and place as you. He is a Ky State Trooper now.

[Judge Pen]

Hey Judgepen do you know David Hay? He is one of our black belts who use to train in Shaolin-Do about the same time and place as you. He is a Ky State Trooper now.

Yes I think I do. Did he go to Clintwood high school in Virginia? If so, tell him I said hello.

[Radhnoti]

JP - "It also depends on how you translate the "grandson" reference. Is it familial or martial (in teacher to student)."

I'd considered that...but wouldn't "grandson" be one generation removed if it were speaking of teacher to student? GM Ie would have used "son" since GM Sin was his direct student, I've been told. Plus it says "To My Grandson and Disciple"...I think if that's inaccurate it wouldn't be a mistranslation but an insertion of a non-existant word. Again, not much incentive for Hiang's group to put in "grandson" when the same letter verifies inheritance of legit leadership.

I wonder how in the world some of these things get out if it contradicts the official view of both sides...

[Golden Tiger]

I wonder how in the world some of these things get out if it contradicts the official view of both sides...

The person that you mentioned sent you the translation used to be a big time SD supporter. Got his first black from M. Sin. Then he moved over to the other side and became a rabid hater of all that is SD. And on the one hand, I "proves" that M. Hiang is the other grand son, so perhaps thats the reason.

I have always wondered why they have kept the letter and not given it to the rightful person that it belongs to, along with a lot of other things that were "misplaced" after the split. Not that it really matters, just wondering.

As to the translation, in my opinion, it could go either way. I have had things translated before and when the same thing was looked at by two different people, I always got minor differences. Perhaps this is the case.

Something else that puzzled me is something Lorenzo said. That "they" paid big money for a translation of Master Sin's certificate, and they have it why? , from a company on the west coast. Why didn't Hiang just translate it? Or heck, someone at one of the buffets in town (thats where I get most of mine done). I mean its not like it was one of the dead sea scrolls. Its just a certificate written in chinese.

Oh well, the mystery shall remain...

[NastyHaggis]

I'm not saying anyone here is trying to protray GM Sin and GM Hiang as having a fued or anything, but just an opinion here (and my opinion doesn't mean squat, so ignore this if you want to) however...

Out of respect, I think we should be careful about how we word things in regards to GM Sin and GM Hiang's relationship. According to my instructor, who is a close friend and LONGTIME student of GM Sin (as in he's a Shaolin Elder Master, but not in the Shaolin-Do Association and GM Sin stays at his house every time he's in town), the two brothers did have troubles in the past but have since patched things up. Regardless of what their respective organizations and students think about each other, the brothers are in good, healthy relations with each other now. Just for the record. I just wanted to make sure we weren't trying to stir something up that didn't exist.

...Now back to the regularly scheduled retarded squabbling over details that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things...

[tattooedmonk]

I'm not saying anyone here is trying to protray GM Sin and GM Hiang as having a fued or anything, but just an opinion here (and my opinion doesn't mean squat, so ignore this if you want to) however...

Out of respect, I think we should be careful about how we word things in regards to GM Sin and GM Hiang's relationship. According to my instructor, who is a close friend and LONGTIME student of GM Sin (as in he's a Shaolin Elder Master, but not in the Shaolin-Do Association and GM Sin stays at his house every time he's in town), the two brothers did have troubles in the past but have since patched things up. Regardless of what their respective organizations and students think about each other, the brothers are in good, healthy relations with each other now. Just for the record. I just wanted to make sure we weren't trying to stir something up that didn't exist.

...Now back to the regularly scheduled retarded squabbling over details that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things...

this is what master sin told me a few years back.....

oh and you know this was to stir up the pot a little more...

and now back to the retarded squabbling that does not really matter......

[kungfujunky]

...Now back to the regularly scheduled retarded squabbling over details that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things...

i couldnt agree more

with the info that has surfaced i think it has answered 95% of all the questions

[Flaca]

I'm not saying anyone here is trying to protray GM Sin and GM Hiang as having a fued or anything, but just an opinion here (and my opinion doesn't mean squat, so ignore this if you want to) however...

Out of respect, I think we should be careful about how we word things in regards to GM Sin and GM Hiang's relationship. According to my instructor, who is a close friend and LONGTIME student of GM Sin (as in he's a Shaolin Elder Master, but not in the Shaolin-Do Association and GM Sin stays at his house every time he's in town), the two brothers did have troubles in the past but have since patched things up. Regardless of what their respective organizations and students think about each other, the brothers are in good, healthy relations with each other now. Just for the record. I just wanted to make sure we weren't trying to stir something up that didn't exist....

I second that; sibling rivalry shouldn't be confused with lack of family loyalty... publicly dissing either brother will be frowned upon.
I've noticed that SD'ers have maintained respect for each other - a united front if you will - although we no longer attend the same tournaments. For my part, that is extremely regretful, as I miss seeing the other students and masters at the tournaments. JP's folks for example.

...Now back to the regularly scheduled retarded squabbling over details that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things...

Do we have to?

[Radhnoti]

GT - "Something else that puzzled me is something Lorenzo said. That "they" paid big money for a translation of Master Sin's certificate, and they have it why? , from a company on the west coast. Why didn't Hiang just translate it?"

I noticed that as well. One possibility it implies is that "they" don't have a native speaker available or at least that "they" aren't supported in efforts to research the documentation. Another possibility is that there was some disagreement/doubt over the correct translation and a third party had to be brought in to verify.
I know everyone in martial arts says, "Wow, my style really has some political situations!", but the The' schools are...really surprising with the depth and breadth.

[Baqualin]

I'm not saying anyone here is trying to protray GM Sin and GM Hiang as having a fued or anything, but just an opinion here (and my opinion doesn't mean squat, so ignore this if you want to) however...

Out of respect, I think we should be careful about how we word things in regards to GM Sin and GM Hiang's relationship. According to my instructor, who is a close friend and LONGTIME student of GM Sin (as in he's a Shaolin Elder Master, but not in the Shaolin-Do Association and GM Sin stays at his house every time he's in town), the two brothers did have troubles in the past but have since patched things up. Regardless of what their respective organizations and students think about each other, the brothers are in good, healthy relations with each other now. Just for the record. I just wanted to make sure we weren't trying to stir something up that didn't exist.

...Now back to the regularly scheduled retarded squabbling over details that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things...

I think we've been very respectful of both...... it was one of Hiangs students that came on here trying to stir up trouble not SD or CSC and we still didn't lose our respect even though Lorenzo did...he also mention that he has taken note on things said about his friend(M.Hiang) I'm not aware of anywhere on this thread that M. Hiang or their school has been mention in anyway by us, only by trolls trying to stir up their regular s**t...I'm very proud of all SD & CSC people and their attitudes....this is what makes Shaolin Do for real

[Lorenzo Valla]

Regarding the translation of Sin's certificate:

I paid for the service, not they.

It wasn't big money, at least not to me. That said, I'm not giving any of my money to SD.

The purpose of a third-party translation is so that it can be unbiased. Anyone who wants to make a supportable position in a contentious argument like this would do the same thing.

I could tell you had the "letter" translated by a waiter at a Chinese restaurant it shows. A professional version would probably make a little more sense and might help (or hurt) your position. A professional would alleviate your questions about the 'grandson' part, for example.

I hope one day you can post the letter, in Chinese of course.

Another assumption you've made is that my purpose was to inflame a sibling rivalry. Just because I've taken a position doesn't mean that its Master Hiang's. By comparison is Sin going to vouch for everything each of you has said on this forum? I'm perfectly capable of looking at the information, evaluating it and forming a position, all without someone spoonfeeding it to me.

The most interesting part of this exchange has been complete silence over my main points. System name, the "grandmaster" certificate, material taught, etc.

At some point your club is going to have to deal with this issue: There is nothing to support Sin's claim except his word. If that's all you need, then fine. Stick with that argument, its respectable and perfectly acceptable. But, to see the same people on the forum twist and turn to accommodate each new revelation that doesn't support the grandmaster theory is hard to watch.

Remember, what I post on here may be a position shared by others, but in the end its mine alone to defend, support or change.

[godzillakungfu]

Wow, you are very insulting.

Funny how a chinese waiter is less knowledgable then your professional service. I find that extremely insulting because, many of my Asian freinds were waiters and have college degrees.

So, that "waiter" may actually be more adept then your paid for service.

Funny thing is every foreign language teacher I have had says the native speakers are much better for translation. They know the slang and different meanings then the professionals.

I think you spent a large sum of money because, you kept going from translator to translator until someone said what you wanted to hear.

[Lorenzo Valla]

The only thing insulting on this forum is the level of intellectual discourse.

A professional translator is just that. I submitted the results from the first service I used and I challenge you to do the same. The name of the company I used was Lingua Solutions. The translator was native Chinese.

Native speakers are absolutely the best people to get, but they must also be professionally fluent in the language they are translating into, in this case English.

If I wanted a professional translation of a Spanish document for use in research, I would not seek out a waiter at a Mexican restaurant. Not because they aren't capable, but because their work can't be supported. I go to Mexican restaurants to eat. I seek out trained, qualifed linguists for translations.