Internal training of strength

[Dingo983]

Fu-Pow
"2) 99% of people have not encountered people that have true understanding of IMA priniciples and can demonstrate them."[quote]

Just curious. Do you consider yourself the 1% who has encountered these people or one of the people who can understand and demonstrate IMA principles?

Imperialtaichi
Keep joking, it keeps you young. You have my corney, sarcastic sense of humor. I was hit by that Five point palm exploding heart technique once. Luckily it was by someone who just started studying it. His master said it won't take effect for approximately 30 to 60 years. And the black palm print on my chest came off with soap and water. Whew!

Fiercest Tiger

"So my question what is internal strength or power! Can it be combined with external training such as weight which i believe is part and parcel to have both yin and yang combined as a balance."

(disclaimer) The following is my opinion...
Is there an internal power? Sure. Meditation, IMA's will sharpen the mind, focus your body's energy. Kind of a workout for the mind and spirit. So I feel if you are physically stronger, you have that much more power to focus your energy with, resulting in more damage at your impact point. I don't know any scientific equations to apply to this, but combining mass, speed, torque, with focused energy is bound to create some serious damage to your target. I look at internal energy partially as a energy (maybe bio-electrical or bio-magnetic) that flows through the body. It probably has an effect on physical and mental health if your bodies energy is "out of wack"(medical term). I also look at internal power as determination, persiverence, positive attitude, self control, will power etc. Internal power will give you the power to mentally last when your body is screaming quit. That is where the balance of the physical come in. The better shape your body is in (such as more muscle mass) the longer it will take for your mind will give up. The better shape your mind is in, the longer it will be before your body gives up. Don't buy into the magic or super human powers of an old man moving his hand 3 inches and his student flys 20 feet across the room (over exageration?). Remember, Dragonball Z is just a cartoon and House of Flying Daggers is not a documentary. Either way I think IMA training is an important aspect of martial arts training but should be balanced with external arts and strength training for better health and optimum results.

Fu-Pow
I saw part of the video you posted for burningmonk in the thread A definition of internal strength. Now to be fair I only saw the first few minutes because I'm on dial up, but to me it looked like his student was being nice and assisting his master push him. I would like to see a skeptic or someone neutral in place of the student. I'll watch the whole video later and retract my statement if it changes my mind.

[spiralstair]

Hi Guys,
Back when I lived in the states I did an accelerated wieght training program at a facility outside of Boston that did most of their business with the local pro athletic teams, training to increase 'explosiveness' in their athletes. This explosiveness that they were seeking I came to understand was like an 'externalist's' fa-jing, a whole body, muscle and weight derived acceleration to produce power. (F=MxA)

I taught a few of these guys a simple free style push hands so that I could get a sense of how much power they could produce without the traditional 'internal' perspective and training. What I found out was that they were extremely strong, very adept at adapting to incoming angles of force,(especially the Football defensive backs), and could have made mincemeat out of MOST of the Internal Martial Arts players I have encountered. Their power felt very 'present' and available. With my eyes closed, I knew I was playing with a very strong human, no doubt.

I would contrast this with my experience free style pushing with the top 'Internalists', of whom I have been fortunate to meet a half dozen or so, one of whom isn't even a IMA practitioner, but an 'External' Master.
There the feeling of their touch was something else alltogether, not at all like the pro athletes. It felt more like I was crossing hands with a warm iceberg, most of the weight and mass 'hidden' somewhere else, beneath the surface. With my eyes closed, I wouldn't even guess what I was playing with, but I did know 'it' was just "playing" with me, thank god.

To me then there are real differences at the 'highest' levels between the external and internal, but I must emphasise 'highest', for the other fact that really stands out in my experience is that the external athletes were 'bringing it' at a very young age(mid-twenties) compared to the internal practioners, the youngest of whom was I think at least 45 years old.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Fu Pow,

There's two big obstacles that I see in people understanding and acceptance of IMA as unique and legitimate:

1) The initial explanation of HOW they work relies on outdated, pseudo-scientific paradigms. .

Please explain to us what a “pseudo-scientific paradigm” is and how it misunderstands IMA?

IMA are a function of the mind directing the body in a different fashion than is commonly used in EMA. It is not that complicated to learn, but does take some practice to use effectively. A principle of IMA is to apply as minimal a Yang force as necessary to an opponent’s vulnerability (Yin) in order to overcome him. It is the use of strategy and tactics combined with an understanding of human biodynamics and momentum that allows one to accomplish this. This is the meaning of the dictum, “Use 4 oz. to overcome 1,000 lbs.” It does not mean an internal adept is able to lift or hit with the force of 1,000 lbs. It means that the force one uses is directed to a weakness in the opponent in a strategic manner, thus creating an effect “similar” to 1,000 lbs of force. 4 oz. of force does not actually result in a literal 1,000 lbs. of force. Because he understands the dynamics of momentum and leverage an IMA adept does not “require” excessive strength to overcome an opponent. That does not mean he MUST NOT have excessive strength, only that it is not necessary to accomplish his purpose.

One of the basic principles of Taoist thought is that energy is to be conserved and not wasted needlessly. Tai Chi in particular seeks to adhere to that principle when applying it to MA. It isn’t the avoidance of strength or force that is called for, it is that a judicious use of force and strength is used in order to preserve energy. Once one understands this desire to preserve energy within Taoist thought the principles of Tai Chi become more understandable.

2) 99% of people have not encountered people that have true understanding of IMA priniciples and can demonstrate them.

So 99% don’t know what they are talking about but your “Taiji teacher who has massive internal skill and can readily demonstrate and who has never lifted a weight in his life” does? And we should take your word for it why? It is more likely you don’t understand what you are seeing and experiencing. Internal skill is a combination of mind and body unification, biomechanics and a specific type of strategy and tactics. Strength does not inherently interfere with any of this. One may fairly say that in many cases extra strength is not necessary, but to state that the strength which results from weight training is a hindrance is foolishness, completely untrue and a misunderstanding of the IMA principles.

The applications that your instructor applies all occur within a specific context. It is a controlled environment. All one need do to neutralize your instructor’s application is to change the context of the exercise without telling him. That means change your biodynamics or momentum. You will note that when engaging in push hands exercises there is a specified stance and movement prescribed. This is for the purpose of learning listening skills and applications by simplifying the movements. Limitations are place upon how one stands and moves because there at just too many variations possible when free form is allowed to occur. Free form push hand exercises are for advance students, but mostly still require a well defined context. Change the context and applications become effectively neutralized. This is a principle of strategy and tactics and applies to all forms of combat not just hand to hand, but wars as well. Any technique, application or tactic one uses works within a specific range of contexts. Once the context is changed the application becomes ineffective. The more skilled the practitioner the more likely they have the flexibility to accommodate to the change in context by transitioning to another application. Then once again the opponent must change the context to overcome that application. This is when skill and experience becomes necessary to overcome an opponent. One of the marvels of Aikido is that each technique may be easily transitioned to another technique as the context of the opponent’s biodynamics and momentum change. This is valuable since not everyone responds in an identical manner when a technique is applied.

The foundation of Internal MA is the mind, but mind directs the body to achieve a purpose. In Tai Chi this purpose is to defend oneself expending as little energy as possible, both mental energy and physical energy. Preservation of energy is a basic principle of Taoist thought. That is what cultivation and preservation of Chi is all about. “Internal” in the context of Taoism and IMA means “from the mind”. Physically manifested power does not come directly from the mind however as in the projection of Chi across distances. Internal training teaches one how the mind directs the body in a more efficacious manner reducing, not eliminating, the need for strength. The body is the tool of the mind, but the mind still requires the power generated by the body. Since Force = Mass x Acceleration, one may increase force in three ways. Increase acceleration, increase mass, or both. It is the manner in which the mind directs the body that creates power, but the power is still generated from the body.

Mass may be increased through strength training. Increased muscle mass is preferable to gaining mass by adding fat because muscle mass is a more efficient use of the gain in mass for generating power. This is because increased muscle mass also increases ones acceleration and reduces the overall amount of energy required to create the same amount of force. This is demonstrated by my example of you and me lifting 100#. Since I am conditioned to lift 100# I am able to lift that amount more easily than you while using less energy. So in your example of training in Tai Chi for 8 hours without becoming fatigued, someone better conditioned, such as myself would be able to train for perhaps 12 or 16 hours before suffering the same amount of fatigue as yourself.

People want to say "external and internal training" are the same thing, therefore they can be trained in the same way. Pro-athletes are internal, powerlifters are internal.....that's because, they, like you don't understand how they are different.

Who wants to say they are the same thing? Who says they can be trained in the same way? How do I not understand they are different? It is more likely you don’t understand what I am saying, not that I don’t understand what I am saying.

What defines an informed weightlifter?

A well informed weightlifter is one who understands the most beneficial training protocols. Those are the ones that have been scientifically studied and determined to be the most effective manner of increasing strength for a specified purpose.

Some of the protocols have been improved over the 2-3,000 years of weight training, but the most basic principle of weight training, that of progressive resistance, goes at least as far back as Milo of Crotona, 536 BC.

I never said that it would "shorten life or reduce martial effectiveness." What it does do is increase risk of injury and limit internal martial arts potential.

The argument is whether weightlifting will inhibit internal development. The answer is yes, it will. They are different ways of moving to develop different skill sets.

What are the definitions of “limit” and “inhibit”? A “limit” is a “boundary” and “to inhibit” is “to interfere with”. Within our context “to limit” then means there is a level of skill one cannot go beyond, while “to inhibit” means it would create greater difficulty in acquiring a certain level of skill. Both reduce martial effectiveness. So IN FACT you DID say weight training would “reduce martial effectiveness”, since both of your WRONG assertions would accomplish just that!

Once again weight training performed properly REDUCES chance of injury; it does NOT increase chance of injury other than to say that a more active life style creates greater opportunity for injury to occur. If one is afraid of the opportunity for injury to occur than one must effectively avoid doing anything, even IMA since activity increases the opportunity for injury to occur over no activity at all. So following your reasoning one should avoid all activity to avoid the chance of incurring an injury!

What actually occurs, as I have repeatedly stated, is that a well toned and strong musculature reduces the chance of injury.

While weight training does in fact require some limited coordination it is NOT performed for the purpose of developing skills, therefore it DOES NOT develop a different set of skill sets. That is NOT its purpose. While all MA training DOES develop skill sets. It is the skill sets of IMA that you are implying weight training interferes with. You have mentioned NO example where this actually occurs other than your inadequate understanding of weight training principles and your misinformation regarding the benefits/detriments of weight training.

[Scott R. Brown]

Fu Pow continued,

I know a lot about weightlifting. I've lifted and done extensive reading on it. Its never done me a **** bit of good in the martial sense. Its a waste of time for martial arts or just about any other athletic endeavor.

No you do not know much about weight training and it is very apparent to those of us who DO know a lot about weight training that you do not know anything about weight training. It is foolishness to conclude weight training is useless due to your own inadequate experience and lack of understanding of proper weight training protocols. It has never done you any good in martial arts BECAUSE you don’t know much about it. Weight training is a benefit to not only ALL athletes, but non-athletes as well. This is a well established scientific fact. If it were not a benefit and indeed interfered with athletic endeavors athletes would not waste their time and energy on it. Use your brain!!!

Really, like who? What pro, elite athletes study IMA? Where did they learn it?

I have already provided a brief list of the uses of Internal principles by athletes. I am not responsible for your inability to read what I have written. Do a little research for yourself. I did not intend to imply nor do I believe I stated elite athletes practice IMA as a general rule. As I have previously stated Internal, when referencing either internal martial arts or internal cultivation, involves the utilization of the mind. Reread my previous post to review some of the protocols used.

You want to point to this mountain of evidence and yet you provide not one reference. Again...generalities.

You haven't provided any hard scientific facts, you're speaking in total generalities.

These comments are like the man who refuses to believe France exists because he has never been there! It does not matter that he knows people that have been there. It does not matter that history books demonstrate France exists. It does not matter to him others have seen photographs of France. To him France does not exist because he refuses to look. Take some responsibility for yourself! There is ample scientific evidence demonstrating the benefits of weight training. You can blame others for your own refusal to look for this EASILY found evidence, but it only reveals the depths of your “Willful Ignorance” for all to witness!

[spiralstair]

Sometimes I feel like this board is a lot like 8th grade... I am still trying to answer the teachers question(TBK's thread starter), while two other guys are engaged in a spitball fight across the room. Guess who the class is paying attention to?

Anyway, when I cross hands with a high level internal player it feels to me like they are accessing mass that comes from somewhere 'else', there is a feeling of a larger mass 'under', like if you lay your hands on top of a huge boulder and direct your force 'in'. Your force is simultaneously directed 'away' from your hands, absorbed, and if you are sensitive to it, you can feel the 'size' of the mass beneath you. To me internal strength is found 'under', connected to by accessing the sub-concious while awake. One of the values in TCB's CTS examination is that the CTS is a primarily sub-concious controlled aspect of the body, and in learning to 'feel' it, one learns to access the sub-concious connections.

"Awake while sleeping, sleeping while awake."

Now Ford and other 'scientists' don't even bother going there, since you guys don't have any proof yet for conciousness, anyway. Please don't start on the sub-concious. Just put up some more PBs on the Squat and Bench, and leave the 'feeling' explorers to the weird $hit

[RonH]

So my question what is internal strength or power! Can it be combined with external training such as weight which i believe is part and parcel to have both yin and yang combined as a balance.

I think shaking sticks, weighted balls, kettlebells and many other traditional methods are for functional strength as well helps flexibiltyb and range of motion.

Well, if you go with a common metaphysics viewpoint, everything is mental energy, which originates from a "source", call it God, akasa, whatever. This means that the ultimate expression of internal power is the degree of focus both your conscious and subconscious minds can give at any one time and the level of energy you can generate/manipulate/sustain production of over a given time frame, since everything is made of energy that's just in different forms and states of existence. Along with this viewpoint, it means that the same thing that is the cause of the existence of every thing around you, is the same thing that is that cause of the existence of you because it's the same source.

Thinking this way gets you over the hump of isolationism of things in the mind and can help the mind (both conscious and subconscious) from falling back into the 'I can't do it' trap. Even if one didn't believe in metaphysics, it's still a good viewpoint to boost self-confidence, so you don't perform any self-sabotage. But, it's important to keep in perspective the absolute view of isolationism and what isn't. Within the metaphysical viewpoint, the source of creation/source of a thing's current existence is what's shared by everything. But, the cause of a thing should never be confused for the thing itself. That is where things are differentiated.

[RonH]

Sometimes I feel like this board is a lot like 8th grade... I am still trying to answer the teachers question(TBK's thread starter), while two other guys are engaged in a spitball fight across the room. Guess who the class is paying attention to?

Anyway, when I cross hands with a high level internal player it feels to me like they are accessing mass that comes from somewhere 'else', there is a feeling of a larger mass 'under', like if you lay your hands on top of a huge boulder and direct your force 'in'. Your force is simultaneously directed 'away' from your hands, absorbed, and if you are sensitive to it, you can feel the 'size' of the mass beneath you. To me internal strength is found 'under', connected to by accessing the sub-concious while awake. One of the values in TCB's CTS examination is that the CTS is a primarily sub-concious controlled aspect of the body, and in learning to 'feel' it, one learns to access the sub-concious connections.

"Awake while sleeping, sleeping while awake."

Now Ford and other 'scientists' don't even bother going there, since you guys don't have any proof yet for conciousness, anyway. Please don't start on the sub-concious. Just put up some more PBs on the Squat and Bench, and leave the 'feeling' explorers to the weird $hit

I would also like to warn others that, while I am for this type of training at times (drawing another's energy in and using it -- it'll only take a small amount of your energy stores to take from another's source and you'll have some more after deflecting/neutralizing), there needs to be care to not absorb/retain another's emotional content connected with their energy.

As a natural empath, I can tell you that taking on the emotions of another (good or bad feelings) is far worse than anything seen in scifi/fantasy. I spend a lot of time during each day keeping people out of me. Look at Springer. That is just a small portion of disgusting and derranged people out there and there are many that are worse. Looking up techniques for shielding is a good suppliment to this type of training.

Either you reaffirm repeatedly that you are not sensitive to emotional energy absorbed by another or the emotional content never enters you. Many don't say in shielding instructions, but taking down and putting up a new shield is good to be done on a daily basis.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi spiralstair,

Sometimes I feel like this board is a lot like 8th grade... I am still trying to answer the teachers question(TBK's thread starter), while two other guys are engaged in a spitball fight across the room. Guess who the class is paying attention to?

Welcome to the internet!

Anyway, when I cross hands with a high level internal player it feels to me like they are accessing mass that comes from somewhere 'else', there is a feeling of a larger mass 'under', like if you lay your hands on top of a huge boulder and direct your force 'in'. Your force is simultaneously directed 'away' from your hands, absorbed, and if you are sensitive to it, you can feel the 'size' of the mass beneath you. To me internal strength is found 'under', connected to by accessing the sub-concious while awake. One of the values in TCB's CTS examination is that the CTS is a primarily sub-concious controlled aspect of the body, and in learning to 'feel' it, one learns to access the sub-concious connections.

I understand what you are feeling. It is based upon biomechanics however. One thing that many Tai Chi players miss is that it is necessary to have contact with an opponent in order to feel this ” mass that comes from somewhere 'else' ”. Since one cannot experience this same feeling without physical contact the “feeling” is based upon material existence and NOT some other type of immaterial energy, i.e. Chi. One may argue that it is Chi infusing the body and I would not dispute this assertion, since exactly what Chi is has yet to be determined. However, at this time, it is just as likely that Chi is how we choose to interpret inexplicable physical phenomenon as it is some immaterial energy. It is even possible that it may be a combination of factors as yet unrecognized.

When engaging in play with high level internal practitioners remember that the play occurs according to a specific context that is predetermined. If a player is unmovable according to a specific context and he is using some immaterial energy to maintain his immobility then he would also be immobile when the context is changed. In other words, if someone unexpectedly came up behind him before he could "get set", or approached him from the side, or a number of individuals applied force at the same point or at different points he would remain unmovable. Even in demonstrations when this does occur it is applied within a specified context dictated by the player. That is, he gets to set the rules of the game and therefore all he is doing is displaying a trick of biomechanics that the observers do not understand or perceive. It is when immobility may be maintained at all times under all circumstances including spontaneously occurring circumstances that one may consider an immaterial force such as Chi has been effectively accessed. If getting physically "set" is required then it cannot be an immaterial energy accessed.

In the absence of passing this test we must conclude that the force of resistance is determined by biomechanics!

Now Ford and other 'scientists' don't even bother going there, since you guys don't have any proof yet for conciousness, anyway. Please don't start on the sub-concious. Just put up some more PBs on the Squat and Bench, and leave the 'feeling' explorers to the weird $hit

Let us be careful not to assume what others think and understand or what their motivations might be, and then criticize according to those assumptions, otherwise we become like the 8th graders you have chosen to criticize. See how easy it is to fall into the trap of being critical of others while acting in the same manner ourselves?

I would also like to warn others that, while I am for this type of training at times (drawing another's energy in and using it -- it'll only take a small amount of your energy stores to take from another's source and you'll have some more after deflecting/neutralizing), there needs to be care to not absorb/retain another's emotional content connected with their energy.

As a natural empath, I can tell you that taking on the emotions of another (good or bad feelings) is far worse than anything seen in scifi/fantasy. I spend a lot of time during each day keeping people out of me. Look at Springer. That is just a small portion of disgusting and derranged people out there and there are many that are worse. Looking up techniques for shielding is a good suppliment to this type of training.

Either you reaffirm repeatedly that you are not sensitive to emotional energy absorbed by another or the emotional content never enters you. Many don't say in shielding instructions, but taking down and putting up a new shield is good to be done on a daily basis.

Hi RonH,

It is only necessary to use a mental shield if one absorbs the emotional energy around them rather than allowing it to pass through them. This absorption occurs because we allow it to occur. We may not understand we are allowing it to occur, therefore it appears that it is something that is happening TO us rather than something we have allowed to occur to us. A “mental energy shield” is a mental device or tool we use. It should not be an end in itself. While helpful, it tends to allow us to avoid making the necessary changes to our perspective that would eliminate the necessity for a mental shield.

The emotional energy of others affects us because we allow it too. Our experience of life is not just what happens to us, it is strongly determined by how we interpret what happens to us. How we interpret events and circumstances is influenced by our temperament which is what we are born with, but it is also influenced by our conditioning. Both natural temperament and conditioning may modified allowing us to become unaffected by the negative emotional energy of others.

[spiralstair]

Scott,
I said in my previous post free style push hands. In other words, moving. Your experience tells you my experience was based on biomechanics, even though you get my experience wrong. Sort of like an eyewitness without the I, no?

And Scott, oh pious one, please do not paint me with your broad IQ condemming brush, I was kidding in my post to Ford. That's what the smiley means.

Have a nice weekend.

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Dingo,

Thanks for the reply, i definetly see what you mean regarding meditation or chi kung.

Scott,

Great info and lots to think about, cheers mate!

This has become a excellent thread keep it up, we need clips now guys to demonstrate the difference??

Garry

[RonH]

Hi Hi RonH,

It is only necessary to use a mental shield if one absorbs the emotional energy around them rather than allowing it to pass through them. This absorption occurs because we allow it to occur. We may not understand we are allowing it to occur, therefore it appears that it is something that is happening TO us rather than something we have allowed to occur to us. A “mental energy shield” is a mental device or tool we use. It should not be an end in itself. While helpful, it tends to allow us to avoid making the necessary changes to our perspective that would eliminate the necessity for a mental shield.

The mental shield serves at minimum 2 purposes. You have the practice of impregnating energy around you, which gives you better groundwork in more advanced energy work. As well as creating a barrier around you, most people that do this don't realize they are performing a form of self-mind control. That's why I said you need to reaffirm it. Your impregnating within the energy that makes up you the idea of you not absorbing emotional content into yourself. This creates a "double barrier". This also helps during times when you forget about putting up a shield. You are already performing self-control in not absorbing the emotional content of another, even if it is a partial success. Continued practice with both strengthens your discipline exponentially. There are ways to get around both these barriers, including brute, emotional force, but that's not where this thread is going.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi spiralstair,

Scott,
I said in my previous post free style push hands. In other words, moving. Your experience tells you my experience was based on biomechanics, even though you get my experience wrong. Sort of like an eyewitness without the I, no?

Thank you for explaining your comments with more precision. Misunderstandings are a part of life and I appreciate your willingness to respond by clarifying your meaning. Perhaps you missed my previous comment stating that free style push hands occurs within a “limited” context as well.

It is more likely I have a clearer understanding of what you experienced because I am familiar with the “feeling” you experienced and have studied the process that occurs more deeply. It is possible I am wrong, however one of the means I use to determine whether my insights are valid is whether in the context of understanding them I am also able to understand the experiences expressed by others.

Principles (Truths) do not change over time or they would not be Truths, however the context in which we understand them and how they are applied DOES change over time. When our present understanding is found to be built upon a foundation of lesser understanding then we may use that as a measure of our present understanding. In other words, I understand your experiences according to your context because I have experienced the same feelings according to similar contexts. As one studies, explores and practices one finds their understanding of TRUE principles deepens. The principles may appear to change but they do not. They only apply according to an different, "expanded", context.

Free style push hands still occurs according to a specified set of rules. The "context" that one adheres too, even in free style, defines the efficacy of the techniques practiced. Discover the weakness of the principles, change the context and the opponent is easily overcome. The only variable is if the opponent has enough experience to change the context of your context change. This is what occurs within any push hands practice anyway. You use your listening skills to sense your opponent’s weakness and then exploit that weakness. This IS changing context. Free style push hands only expands the context but, it is still a specific (limited) context. This is a well known strategy used through out the ages by all innovative generals such as Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Wellington, Sun Tzu. It is simply, determine your opponent’s weakness and exploit it.

Observing an opponent's context/weakness in order to exploit it is also what occured in the old days when a competitor went to a MA school to challenge the Master. He must first fight a few of the senior students. This gives the seniors and Master the opportunity to evaluate the opponents skill level and observe his applications in order to more easily over come him. By identifying his context and exploiting the weaknesses an opponent is more easily overcome.

It is not necessary for you to accept my comments out of hand. They are easily testable by anyone and will be demonstated to be true according to ones own experience. If one attempts to apply these principles and they do not work, it is because of their limited skill level and understanding of the principles. Under this circumstance just keep them in mind until your skill level and insight increase and then try again. Eventually, they will be proven a valuable part of your MA knowledge base. And you got it all for free too!!

And Scott, oh pious one, please do not paint me with your broad IQ condemning brush, I was kidding in my post to Ford. That's what the smiley means.

Smilies are also commonly used to deflect a return of hostility for hostility given when one chooses to ridicule others. To make insulting comments and then think that a smiley covers up hostile intent is a bit of wishful thinking.

You have clearly reduced your present comment to your, self-described, 8th grade level and you once again used a smiley as if to indicate your insult is just, “all in good fun!” This of course demonstrates my point that smilies are commonly used to avoid having to take responsibility for making insulting comments. It would be more appropriate to avoid making the comments in the first place, thus avoiding confusion and a hostile return for your hostile intent. Regardless you have still demonstrated a willingness to join us in the 8th grade and my point is well made!

It is easy to get drawn into what some would consider childish behavior isn’t it? I am not claiming immunity from this condition, but then I am not condemning you for it either, just stating your comments are "The pot calling the kettle black!" Please take note if you wish to take a superior tone in the future and to avoid appearing hypocritical!

You have a good weekend too!

[Scott R. Brown]

HI RonH,

The mental shield serves at minimum 2 purposes. You have the practice of impregnating energy around you, which gives you better groundwork in more advanced energy work. As well as creating a barrier around you, most people that do this don't realize they are performing a form of self-mind control. That's why I said you need to reaffirm it. Your impregnating within the energy that makes up you the idea of you not absorbing emotional content into yourself. This creates a "double barrier". This also helps during times when you forget about putting up a shield. You are already performing self-control in not absorbing the emotional content of another, even if it is a partial success. Continued practice with both strengthens your discipline exponentially. There are ways to get around both these barriers, including brute, emotional force, but that's not where this thread is going.

I am not sure I understand you. Are you agreeing with my comments, clarifying your comments, but disagreeing with mine, or agreeing with mine while clarifying yours?

[Scott R. Brown]

Scott,

Great info and lots to think about, cheers mate!

This has become a excellent thread keep it up, we need clips now guys to demonstrate the difference??

Garry

Hi Garry,

Thank you for the kind words my friend!

[RonH]

HI RonH,



I am not sure I understand you. Are you agreeing with my comments, clarifying your comments, but disagreeing with mine, or agreeing with mine while clarifying yours?

What I wrote could be seen as all of the above at the same time. However...I would choose "clarifying my comments, agreeing with you in part and adding a additional support structure method that can be added regularly to one's routine because of personal preferance purposes."