Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Flaca]

yang - hehehe...don't bother trying to get ready for the ground monkey. It's tough. That's all there is to it. Just go and plan on having lots of fun. Of course, after you learn it you'll have hours of entertainment on your hands!

I'm a big fan of the monkey, and I really feel that, because it is so different from anything else we do, the only way to get ready for monkey is to do more monkey. It changes the way you move, and the way you think and act if you do the forms correctly.

Heck, so if you wanna get ready and don't like the idea of just waiting for it. Go out and pretend to be a monkey. Throw yourself around on the ground and have a good time! That's what I do...hehehe....plus my forms, techniques, drill, background training, conditioning...blahblahblah....I've actually worked up quite an extensive monkey repertoire of training materials from my own study and practice of the forms.

We did ground monkey in class a few times. Slide in side kick one way, slide in side kick the other way, dive on your face, side kick, kip up, dive on your face again, jump to seated... omg!!! Fun though.

[NastyHaggis]

We are getting ready for Golden Leopard I & II in a couple of weeks. Great stuff. I'm only a white sash (will test for yellow that week), so I'm a tad unsure of what to expect right now.

[tattooedmonk]

I believe they are referred to as "tiger sister system forms." They are supposed to teach the three hand strikes of the tiger system: tiger claw, open palm, and fist. They obviously also teach different methods of footwork: switching stances more or less in place from ching kang; spinning while advancing and retreating from lian u chang; and pretty much straight out advancing from chie chuan.

I guess that conceptually it makes a lot of sense that they are where they are in the curriculum. Right after we learn these forms (which get us ready for tiger system), we learn the black tiger forms.

I agree that the black tiger system seems quite different from these forms. I think that the black tiger system was it's own system, not to be confused with the original tiger system. It seems much more "northern" in its approach: far-reaching attacks and lots of good techniques for covering big gaps in distances. However, if you look at the golden tiger form taught outside the curriculum, it makes a lot of sense that the three 1st brown forms get the student ready for tiger system training.

I've seen them referred to as china hands, but never actually heard that from my teacher or grandmaster sin. So, I stick with the sister system story.


Hope this helps. As for what they were first referred to, I'd ask GT or Baqualin....although I haven't seen them around too much lately.

this is what i was taught on the west coast as well ( nice to see somnethings have stayed the same!

[Leto]

I think that the black tiger system was it's own system, not to be confused with the original tiger system.

What forms belong to the "original tiger system"?

When you say "tiger sister system", you're thinking that they belong with the four black tiger forms, and are from Shantung? I'm not skeptical of this, just looking for instruction. The Soards call them the "Shantung Whirling Palm Fighting System" (that's how it is on the schedule from the website). It makes sense that the three brown belt forms are like a foundation for different styles of striking (though the black tigers only use the special fist formation, and use different forms of claw and palm striking). Besides fei hu chu tong, are there any other tiger system forms in the style? In three years, I didn't see any tiger style seminars advertised, and no regular curriculum forms after the black tigers.
I love these forms and practice them regularly, I'm just trying to make sense of the "system" part of it. Which concepts and techniques carry over from the brown belt forms into the black tigers? Or are they more like supplemental/additional techniques that would have been taught to round out the skills of the black tiger set?

[ninthdrunk]

Personally, I've always felt that lian u chang and chie chuan were the sister system forms, while ching kang is a "proper" tiger form. I believe there is a mountain tiger family from the original tiger system. I've always felt that ching kang would be one of the mountain tiger forms. Just my opinion, and there is no other reason for me to think so than a hunch.

As for other tiger forms, there is the golden tiger form floating around. It's like a more challenging version of ching kang. Those two, plus flying tiger (which I believe is actually only one-third of the original form, comprise what has been taught out of the "original" tiger system. It's my understanding there was a tiger system from honan (probably eighteen forms, but I'm not sure). Within that system, there are supposed to be five "families" of sub-systems: white tiger, flying tiger, golden tiger, mountain tiger....and something else. Again, this is from a very brief conversation with a master, and I'm not sure of the validity, so please do not start selling this as gospel. Anyway, the original tigers move a lot differently than the black tigers. There seems to be more focus on flow and fluidity rather than sheer brutality. Take for example, ching kang. When compared to the black tigers, it is easy to see that they are....well, two different animals. The same is true of golden tiger. However, when you compare ching kang, golden tiger, and even flying tiger, it's easy to find some similarities.

When one looks at the golden tiger form, it's easy to see how the sister system forms teach tiger movements. There's a lot in there that comes straight from lian u chang and chie chuan. One can also find similarities in the black tigers. Second tiger makes use of the side hand strike and turning the body a lot like lian u chang, for instance. (Just curious: are you learning the black tigers yet, or are you just trying to get an idea of what to expect?)


Man, this is a lot nicer than....well, you know...

[Leto]

I know the black tigers. I've never seen the golden tiger advertised, I must have missed it. I am in the west, and stared in 2002. I've heard similar rumors from teachers, like there are eighteen forms of each style and weapon, of which only one or a few have been taught to us.
I always had a suspicion that Fei Hu CHu Tong was either created as a "beginner" tiger form from bits of longer forms, or was a shortened section or version of some longer form. This is done in lots of styles, especially karate (where the founder or a forefather invents a new, easier kata for beginners).

[MasterKiller]

What do your Flying Tiger forms look like?

There is a series of Mantis/Long Fist forms called Little, Middle, and Large Tiger-Swallow Fist, but sometimes they're translated as Flying Tiger Fist.

[Judge Pen]

What do your Flying Tiger forms look like?

There is a series of Mantis/Long Fist forms called Little, Middle, and Large Tiger-Swallow Fist, but sometimes they're translated as Flying Tiger Fist.

The "flying tiger" set that we have is very short and very basic. As mentioned above, its strongly suspected that it is only part of a larger form. Interestingly, I've seen the form little tiger swallow fist performed before and in my opinion, it was very similar to the two china hand sets we have (Lien U Chang ~ Five Directional Palm; Chie Chien ~ Interconnecting Fist) which, as discussed above, are identified as sister forms to our Golden Tiger sets. Its not the same form, but there a simularity in the flow and sequence of techniques in the LTS form that mirrors our china hand sets. For whatever that's worth.

[Golden Tiger]

What do your Flying Tiger forms look like?

Part of the little one can be seen in the "Fight Science " clip someone here posted. Let me find it and I will give you the time coordinates.

[MasterKiller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0NKHVvGUS0

EDIT--Little Tiger Swallow

[Golden Tiger]

Fei Hu Cho Tung* 1:53-1:59 from the grab cross trap to the dbl strike out in a rt bow stance

before that, is our Lo Han Chien form . the opening at least

[MasterKiller]

link?

[Golden Tiger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G-dy...related&search


Sorry MK, I thought your post was the link to it.

[Judge Pen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0NKHVvGUS0

EDIT--Little Tiger Swallow

GT, I'll defer to your opinion, but to me this form contains many of the same elements of interconnecting fist and a tad bit fo 5 directional palm. What do you think?

[Judge Pen]

Fei Hu Cho Tung* 1:53-1:59 from the grab cross trap to the dbl strike out in a rt bow stance

before that, is our Lo Han Chien form . the opening at least

Move for move. I think I'll post parts of these forms for comparision.