Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Citong Shifu]

You can enquire til you're blue in the face , a business only has the obligation to provide the product that it promises. How that product is produced, where it comes from and who made it are things that a private company can chose to keep private if it so desires. You have the right to decide if you want to buy the product or not.

BD, lol, I think your business law is a little rusty . A company that produces a product has to supply the public with information concerning the product, what information isnt supplied has to be made available apon request to the consumer. It's the law, well at least, commercial products or SERVICES. Now, the product will dictate what information that needs to be supplied... Furthermore, a business is not obligated to provide any products in general, unless, as you said, they promise a particular product (like McDonalds - You wouldnt go to mcdonalds to get a burger king whopper, lol). Example, There is a TAE KWON DO school here in my town that was sued last year because their sign said KARATE. The plantif won his case because karate is not tae kwaon do and received his 6 months of tuition and legal fee's. I know the instructor, he told me personally that he uses the karate sign because its generic and represents martial arts as a whole , people know the name karate more than they do TKD, using the popularity of the word karate over TKD, etc... Furthermore, the student was told or informed that the school taught TKD upon signing up, the student explained that he was not sure if he wanted to do TKD because he was looking for a karate style, the instructor told him that TKD and karate are pretty much the same thing, so the student signed up ... Well, 6 months later the student didnt like the class and quit. He started training at a Okinawan karate school a few towns over. Guess what. He sued and argued that the TKD instructor mislead him, winning his case.... Hmmmmmm... Take it for what you will. Business is business when dealing with the public or commercial aspects... The point is this, the student had the right to not sign up with the TKD school, yes, but the TKD instructor persuaded him to take his program in repects to karate and TKD being being the same type of art.... Oh, by the way, the TKD instuctor no longer has a karate sign above his school, it now says TKD.. Remember, there's power in words, words can persuade, etc...

All I'm trying to say is this, if someone isnt happy with the product, history, claimes, or service find another product, period... As far as SD, SD doesnt effect my school, style, repuatation, etc. I cant see where its effecting anyone else's way of life either...

CS.

[Citong Shifu]

BD, lol, I think your business law is a little rusty . A company that produces a product has to supply the public with information concerning the product, what information isnt supplied has to be made available apon request to the consumer. It's the law, well at least, commercial products or SERVICES. Now, the product will dictate what information that needs to be supplied... Furthermore, a business is not obligated to provide any products in general, unless, as you said, they promise a particular product (like McDonalds - You wouldnt go to mcdonalds to get a burger king whopper, lol). Example, There is a TAE KWON DO school here in my town that was sued last year because their sign said KARATE. The plantif won his case because karate is not tae kwaon do and received his 6 months of tuition and legal fee's. I know the instructor, he told me personally that he uses the karate sign because its generic and represents martial arts as a whole , people know the name karate more than they do TKD, using the popularity of the word karate over TKD, etc... Furthermore, the student was told or informed that the school taught TKD upon signing up, the student explained that he was not sure if he wanted to do TKD because he was looking for a karate style, the instructor told him that TKD and karate are pretty much the same thing, so the student signed up ... Well, 6 months later the student didnt like the class and quit. He started training at a Okinawan karate school a few towns over. Guess what. He sued and argued that the TKD instructor mislead him, winning his case.... Hmmmmmm... Take it for what you will. Business is business when dealing with the public or commercial aspects... The point is this, the student had the right to not sign up with the TKD school, yes, but the TKD instructor persuaded him to take his program in repects to karate and TKD being being the same type of art.... Oh, by the way, the TKD instuctor no longer has a karate sign above his school, it now says TKD.. Remember, there's power in words, words can persuade, etc...

All I'm trying to say is this, if someone isnt happy with the product, history, claimes, or service find another product, period... As far as SD, SD doesnt effect my school, style, repuatation, etc. I cant see where its effecting anyone else's way of life either...

CS.

Just to let everyone know, I was insinuating anything. I was only pointing out that commercial business has the burden of supplying the consumer with information concerning their products / services. Regardless if the company in general feels its neccessary or not.. If a person doesnt feel that they had received the information they requetsed, they should choose another product or service...

CS

[BoulderDawg]

Just so I'll have basis for my knowledge of business law:

What law do you refer to?

and

What jurisdiction? State, Federal...What?

Also, what case was the Karate case?

************

If I offer you some sort of instruction (such as MA, Dance, Language...whatever) all I have to do is deliver. You can ask "What are your qualifications to teach French?" then I have the right to tell you "My qualifications are private. If you don't want my instruction then don't sign up."

Now, your description of the Karate case has nothing to do with this topic. The customer was told he would learn Karate but was taught something else. It's the same as if I was told I would receive instruction in dancing the Tango but was taught the Twist instead. Had I'd been on the bench I would have asked this idiot why it took him 6 months to figure out he wasn't being taught Karate.

With a product, if I sell you a bookcase I made in my shop then I have no obligation to tell you how it was made or who made it. I could just say "There's the bookcase...buy it or not!"

[Citong Shifu]

Just so I'll have basis for my knowledge of business law:

What law do you refer to?

and

What jurisdiction? State, Federal...What?

Also, what case was the Karate case?

************

If I offer you some sort of instruction (such as MA, Dance, Language...whatever) all I have to do is deliver. You can ask "What are your qualifications to teach French?" then I have the right to tell you "My qualifications are private. If you don't want my instruction then don't sign up."

Now, your description of the Karate case has nothing to do with this topic. The customer was told he would learn Karate but was taught something else. It's the same as if I was told I would receive instruction in dancing the Tango but was taught the Twist instead. Had I'd been on the bench I would have asked this idiot why it took him 6 months to figure out he wasn't being taught Karate.

With a product, if I sell you a bookcase I made in my shop then I have no obligation to tell you how it was made or who made it. I could just say "There's the bookcase...buy it or not!"

LOL, it really isnt a case of who made the bookcase, unless asked. If you dont kow, then you dont know... Thats what I've been saying all along. If you dont like theproduct for whatever reasons, dont buy it. period. as far as this having nothing to do with this thread, your wrong, it has alot to do with it... There's no debate here. Do things how you wish. As far as business law, I guess it has to do with the state you live in, but federal is pretty much universal... I really dont care either way. I've never been sued for any reason. I follow and adhere to the laws of states and the U.S.. Furthermore, I dont debate my art and lineage, etc.

There's alot of debate on this thread due to history, etc. My small posts on this matter was due to the response of a commercial business not having to supply product or service information to the consumer... I guess in your world, you dont have to answer to the consumer, but knowingly keeping info from the consumer has led to many legal disputes. If you want to have a commercial business, be prepared to have people ask questions, disagree, debate, doubt, request info, etc. This is all I was trying to say...

I myself as a school owner have no problems with such requests, nor do I find it insulting... Also, I know that it is my responsibility to provide information on the services my business offers, rather its asked for or not...... I guess thats why I dont have alot of the problems many schools have today... Anywho, this debate was over before it started...

CS

[Judge Pen]

Interesting fact pattern CS. There's also something in business law known a "puffing" where a boastful claim is obviously intended to boost the perception of a product but a reasonable person wouldn't belive the statement to be "fact" per se. Of course any misrepresentation case is very fact specific, but your "karate"/"TKD" case is of interest to me.

[Citong Shifu]

Interesting fact pattern CS. There's also something in business law known a "puffing" where a boastful claim is obviously intended to boost the perception of a product but a reasonable person wouldn't belive the statement to be "fact" per se. Of course any misrepresentation case is very fact specific, but your "karate"/"TKD" case is of interest to me.

JP, I dont have all the details to that particular case, just an overview that I had gotten from my TKD friend/instructor. Whatever it was, it greatly influenced his business tatics... I will see if I can get more detail from him when I speak with him again... I dont want to speculate without knowing exact details. My statements earlier was from a brief conversation that we had a while back....

I only brought this up because it happened. My friend wasnt trying to be mislead or misrepresent himself or school. He was just using a more popular way to introduce his art or school to the public in term they were familiar with... He's really a good guy with good intentions... Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, maybe he did misrepresent, I dont know.

Anywho, I think we all need to better educate the public concerning our arts, not contradict each other or arts. I really believe people will do what they want regardless of history, lineage, etc, if there really achieving benefits. We all have our backgrounds and many of them are different, we all cant be the same. With this said, be who you are, cause in the end, all you have is what you've become .

You guys take care and fight the good fight.

CS

[Golden Tiger]

Anywho, I think we all need to better educate the public concerning our arts, not contradict each other or arts. I really believe people will do what they want regardless of history, lineage, etc, if there really achieving benefits. We all have our backgrounds and many of them are different, we all cant be the same. With this said, be who you are, cause in the end, all you have is what you've become .

You guys take care and fight the good fight.

CS

Personally, I think we have done just about all we can to educate anyone and everyone about Shaolin-Do, both the good and the bad. We have tried to answer every question as best we can and as far as I am concerned, never knowing tried to deceive anyone. Its obvious that some don't like the answers we give them, but thats not our fault.

As far as being out there, there are schools in most towns that welcome anyone in, Master Sin has been published in many magazines, 2 books and had two TV series. So if anyone comes in and doesn't know what they are getting, its not because we have tried to hide it.

It has been said the insanity is repeating the same thing (question) and expecting a different result (answer). Makes you wonder doesn't it..

[Citong Shifu]

Personally, I think we have done just about all we can to educate anyone and everyone about Shaolin-Do, both the good and the bad. We have tried to answer every question as best we can and as far as I am concerned, never knowing tried to deceive anyone. Its obvious that some don't like the answers we give them, but thats not our fault.

As far as being out there, there are schools in most towns that welcome anyone in, Master Sin has been published in many magazines, 2 books and had two TV series. So if anyone comes in and doesn't know what they are getting, its not because we have tried to hide it.

It has been said the insanity is repeating the same thing (question) and expecting a different result (answer). Makes you wonder doesn't it..

GT, We cant please everyone all of the time. I feel that SD has stated their case and provided everyone with the best information they could or possible. Some choose to debate while others say ok... I think there comes a point where when this happens we try too hard to explain or give facts, which opens the door for even more debate... I look like it like this, SD has already stated thier position, time to move on... Anything else is debating what has already been debated, rather people got they answers they want or not. The fact is, there's nothing more to debate.

CS

[wdl]

Sometimes i say things out of anger, and sometimes i say things out of a deep calm.

Wdl? no i am not bipolar, i am human. are you a psychologist? can you make that judgement? i think not.

*sigh*, It was a metaphor and observation man not a judgement, refering to how you swing back and forth emotionally over the subject. As in, you act completely bipolar over it, like it's affecting your life and your ability operate, aka, you would then be bipolar. Telling you to "take some meds" meant(pardon the pun) "take a chill pill" and relax.

This thread proves that people take the internet and the entertainment derived from it entirely too seriously. It's like talk radio. People get all worked up over what Rush Limbaugh or Al Franken said depending on their political point of view, typically over looking the fact that it's entertainment and on any given day doesn't really affect THEM PERSONALLY!

If people spent as much time learning their repsective MA than worrying about this subject(or today I'll have to get over TWS' denial of his bipolar tendencies hahaha) we'd all have more productive discussion to share with each other.

-Will

[brucereiter]

interesting quote from the below linked site.

http://www.shaolinwolf.com/shaolinindex.htm

<< Fu Yu invited the best martial artists to come and share their knowledge while training at the Shaolin temple. Three times, for a period of three years each time, martial artists from many places came to the Shaolin temple to share their knowledge. The Shaolin monks recorded the forms and techniques, which they observed into a library which was kept at Shaolin. It is for this reason that the Shaolin Temple is often considered the birthplace of martial arts. However this is incorrect. The Shaolin Temple can be seen more as a modern day University that simply studied martial arts and then combined the useful techniques into a new system. This system is now known as Shaolin Kung Fu.Fu Yu's lineage continues unbroken to this >>

what do you all think of this?

[sunfist]

Long thread. Have we learnt the true meaning of christmas yet?

[Golden Tiger]

Long thread. Have we learnt the true meaning of christmas yet?

Tis better to receive than give 'cept where a$$ whoopins are involved

[MasterKiller]

Long thread. Have we learnt the true meaning of christmas yet?

Originally, Christmas was a drunken holiday on par with St. Patricks Day. In the late 1800s when elite NY socialites wanted to change it into something more civil, they set about a deliberate campaign in to change it's image by A) writing children's Christmas stories and promoting them at Macy's and other department stores and B) publishing magazine editorials pushing the version we know today.

Much like the concept of the 'living room,' which was a deliberate campaign waged by Good Housekeeping magazine to make people stop displaying dead bodies in the 'parlor' of their house because they saw it as tacky, your ideas of what Christmas really is were sold to your great grandparents in an effort to make rich white people more money.

Afterall, everyone knows Jesus was born in the Spring and the date was set on Dec. 25 so that all the non-Xtians celebrating the Winter Solstice could be more easily converted.

[sunfist]

Dont forget saturnalia, orgies ahoy!

However the question is, if jesus and master sin attended the same orgy -thus having a chance to compare- who would have the more sizeable equpiment?

[Baqualin]

Originally, Christmas was a drunken holiday on par with St. Patricks Day. In the late 1800s when elite NY socialites wanted to change it into something more civil, they set about a deliberate campaign in to change it's image by A) writing children's Christmas stories and promoting them at Macy's and other department stores and B) publishing magazine editorials pushing the version we know today.

Much like the concept of the 'living room,' which was a deliberate campaign waged by Good Housekeeping magazine to make people stop displaying dead bodies in the 'parlor' of their house because they saw it as tacky, your ideas of what Christmas really is were sold to your great grandparents in an effort to make rich white people more money.

Afterall, everyone knows Jesus was born in the Spring and the date was set on Dec. 25 so that all the non-Xtians celebrating the Winter Solstice could be more easily converted.

I now know why you have the name Master Killer.......your killing me!