Knifefighter question

[Knifefighter]

I am not stating it is beneath me. I am stating it is pointless. It is not because you are MMA. It would be the same for an old CMA master.

We do not spar outside our style. Before you think that is not good, you must remember that Sigung Chan Sau Chung produced many Knock 0ut artists from the late 60s to the early 80s. One reason you don't see them in pride or ufc or whatever is because 99% of his guys are very small (120-135lbs). I am the biggest guy in TSPK. Sigung wanted me to fight (180lbs), but i don't want to be a career fighter.

Uh... let's see. You live in a little bubble world where you don't spar outside your style, so you have never gone against an older MMA guy.

But you somehow "know" that you would beat him.

Typical kung fu BS.

[sihing]

James:

How could you possibly compare the vid of William Cheung against the boxer (also someone that Phil and I know for many years - as he was a one time student of our other partner here in NYC back in the 80s - Sonny Whitmore)...

how can you compare that to the Dale/Rahsun vids?

The boxer was wearing boxing gloves (Grandmaster Cheung was not)...and there was no attempt to clinch or go for a takedown.

As for Rahsun's shoulders being "up"...so what?

As for his arms being extended against a smaller man who's trying to get to clinch range - as Dale said: a very smart strategy.

You need to get with it, man.

Hey Vic,

I guess all I can say is to each there own.

From what I understand shoulders up is not a good thing, it denotes tension in the upper body, tensing up is not a good thing in a fight from my limited understanding . Good Wing Chun comes from the ground up, with the elbows down and shoulders relaxed. Also with the arms outstretched and always retreating, how is that a Wing Chun concept in application? Does one have to train for years to learn that? Most people do that anyways without any training, arms up and retreat backwards. My point was that someone with some experience wouldn't be demonstrating that sort of behavior, especially when the session was not very intense. In my book your wide open for a kick to the mid section or low part of the body when you constantly raise your hands up and retreat upon being attacked. But that's just me, whatta I know ah..

Now in the second video with stand up only, IMO there wasn't much difference between the scenerios demonstrated by Cheung vs. the Boxer and Rahsun vs Dale. Both WC practitioners faced people throwing jabs and hook/crosses. The second video didn't include any takedowns from what I observed, that was mostly in the first video. Plus there is a video of Cheung with the boxer, and neither of them have gloves on (it looks like it was filmed on a roof). I'll post it on youtube for you to see. Also if you observe, Cheungs hands are NOT extended way out, but more close in to his body, while still protecting his centerline. I bit more wiser IMO.

It's just an observation from myself. Of course I realize that not all will agree with it and that's okay. I thought the idea behind this forum was to discuss things. A video was posted, and if Rahsun didn't want this to be public then he shouldn't have posted it on Myspace. I saw it and thought I recognized Dale and asked him if that was him. I observed somethings that I thought were incorrect application of TWC, it's only my opinion and I think I have a right to state it. I don't really think I was nitpicking because I noticed a FEW things wrong, not just something small and insignifigant. Wing Chun applicaton IMO is very specific, and since he was definetly fighting in a WC posture, trying to apply WC concepts I thought I would comment on it. I have video's out there as well that don't look to hot either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi-e3a2tw90 , here's the vid of Cheung and the boxer, both with no gloves on, doing basically the samethings as Dale and Rahsun. A much better demonstration I think..

Peace

James

[Knifefighter]

Now in the second video with stand up only, IMO there wasn't much difference between the scenerios demonstrated by Cheung vs. the Boxer and Rahsun vs Dale. Both WC practitioners faced people throwing jabs and hook/crosses. The second video didn't include any takedowns from what I observed, that was mostly in the first video.

Not the same at all.

In each of our sessions, we were still working on me getting into clinch/takedown range and him keeping me outside.

In the clip you posted the boxer was not trying to get into that range. If anything, the boxer was working to keep the WC fighter outside.

[David Jamieson]

Where can he men get the clay aiken shirts?

i have spock ears already.

[Knifefighter]

Also with the arms outstretched and always retreating, how is that a Wing Chun concept in application?

Arms out with lateral/back movement is precisely the thing that made it hard for me to get into clinch/takedown range. I don't know if it is a WC concept (are WC guys not allowed to use non-WC concepts?), but it is a great way to keep a grappler from getting close... in wrestling we used to call it stalling, but I tend to think of it as "anti-grappling" at its finest.

In the clip where I got the takedown, he attacked with forward energy, which is what set up the takedown for me.

[Flying-Monkey]

Uh... let's see. You live in a little bubble world where you don't spar outside your style, so you have never gone against an older MMA guy.

But you somehow "know" that you would beat him.

Typical kung fu BS.

You don't know what you are talking about. I wrote that I don't spar outside of my style. I didn't state that I didn't FIGHT outside of my style. Yes, I have fought MMAists before. I went through them. I don't mention this is every MMA thread, because there is no proof of this. If you want to fight, I am cool with it. I don't make excuses. I will fight if I am injured or if my car won't start or if a family member dies. I would be even more p!ss if I had to fight a clown when I would rather be with my family in such a situation.

Is this a challenge? No. I am in Japan and you are in America. I am just telling you how it is.

[Knifefighter]

You don't know what you are talking about. I wrote that I don't spar outside of my style. I didn't state that I didn't FIGHT outside of my style.

What would be the rationale for fighting outside one's style but only sparring people who train the same style?

[Flying-Monkey]

What would be the rationale for fighting outside one's style but only sparring people who train the same style?

We don't want to spar with someone outside our style and get in the situation where there are a lot of would of could of should of. The main reason we train is for self defense. We don't train to be cage fighters. We had some career fighters, they entered K1 style matches. Plus, it is our tradition. If you question our kung fu, feel free to look me up when i get back. If you think TSPK is no good, I would be more then happy to show you.

To be honest, I don't know why you waste your time in a kung fu forum.

[Knifefighter]

We don't want to spar with someone outside our style and get in the situation where there are a lot of would of could of should of. .

Fair enough. Do you have any clips of your sparring?

The main reason we train is for self defense. .

How does your training differ from "non self-defense" training?

feel free to look me up when i get back. .

Where are you from?

To be honest, I don't know why you waste your time in a kung fu forum.

Mostly entertainment value... but sometimes I learn a thing or two.

[Phil Redmond]

Originally Posted by Knifefighter
Arms out with lateral/back movement is precisely the thing that made it hard for me to get into clinch/takedown range. I don't know if it is a WC concept (are WC guys not allowed to use non-WC concepts?), but it is a great way to keep a grappler from getting close...

Exactly what you said that day Dale. It's one way TWC uses to keep a grappler at bay.

Originally Posted by Knifefighter
. . in wrestling we used to call it stalling, . . .

Thanks Dale. I never knew that.

Originally Posted by Knifefighter
. . . but I tend to think of it as "anti-grappling" at its finest.

So it seems that the outstrectched arms do serve a purpose.

[Knifefighter]

So it seems that the outstrectched arms do serve a purpose.

Muay Thai uses a more "outstretched" arm approach to quite good effect. I think outstretched arms can serve a variety of purposes.

[SifuAbel]

You know, its hard take all your puffer fish chest thumping seriously when I hear it all in my head in that pippy longstocking - Jackie Stewart(jokckey) voice of yours. Its like a munchkin getting a role in Pulp Fiction.

Imagine if you will, Sam Jackson doing the whole movie on helium. Laugh riot.

[SifuAbel]

I guess we'll find out who the BS artist is when you show up for your sparring lesson.

You do realize that you being a hypocrite isn't directly connected to your "skill".

[SifuAbel]

So is it safe to say that I would be the first kung fu teacher you've fought? yes? no?

[SevenStar]

Why the hell is Abel gloating? As far as I can tell he's just made fun of KF's height, age and voice but still hasn't met up with him.
If that's the new standard we're going by I'll declare myself the victor over 7* since I made fun of his street cred once or twice. Of course I will now have to avoid being anywhere within 253 miles of him as it would be incredibly embarrassing for me to be stuffed into a garbage can by a guy wearing Spock ears and a Clay Aiken t-shirt.

what's wrong with being a clay aiken fan? Dammn.... I bet I lost more street cred for that...