Just signed up my 30th student.

[Royal Dragon]

I allways charged by the hour.

$10.00 per hour..if they took 3 hours a week, I did it for $8.00...5 hours I did it for $7.00 and hour and so on.

[Mas Judt]

There is a fine line between making a living at this and being a scumbag.

I'm partial to the hourly rate model. Currently I run a small class (stable at about 5 core folks, total attendance around 10). I don't really advertise or promote the class, it has all been word of mouth.

About half my students pay for two private lessons a month, and get all the group classes for free. The others pay $10 a class for 1-1/2 hour classes.

I'm too busy to deal with the tax reporting on supplies, so I just point them to the web to buy. What I would make is certainly not worth my time.

I'm not sure if you CAN be profitable anymore without running a daycare center, or teaching so delicately it can barely be called a martial art. If I could find a way, I would do it.

[Oso]

racerx: thanks.

Oso,
Since you cut the class times in half, maybe you could offer a Level 1 class and a Level 2 class.

Level 1 would be what you are doing now, and Level 2 would be for people that want more contact. That way, the people who don't want to hit hard can go home after 1 hour, and the people that do want to hit hard can stick around for another hour and train more.

well, what I've done is cut it into 'beginner's' at 6:30 and 'intermediate/advanced' at 7:30 where I did have just one big class time. The first 5 sash levels are 'beginners' and consist of just the tan tui's, BaBu Lian Hua and Shi Ba Shou (including two person), some basic chin na, a couple of throws and a few kicks. a total of 8 of the infamous Pong Lai arm drills and a few kick drills. After the 5th sash level, the mantis forms start and student transfers mainly into the later class though they can come for both hours if they want.

as far as contact, I'm keeping the beginner class light and letting anyone come in to sparring class as soon as they want. since i'm mostly trying to run a sanda type format, a large 'technique' base isn't needed and they can watch some to see if they think they want the contact and then jump in if they wish. most of the college guys are in and doing well. we're using 12oz. gloves and wearing headgear.

I'm not even trying to really include arm or shin conditioning in the beginners class. I definitely have lost students who didn't want to wear bruises on their arms.


BoulderDawg: that's basically what I'm trying to do. I'd thought about adding an extra charge for weapons and sparring but am settling for garnering the retail income on the gear.

I'm not sure if you CAN be profitable anymore without running a daycare center, or teaching so delicately it can barely be called a martial art. If I could find a way, I would do it.

I'm not sure either. When I moved to this town 5 1/2 years ago, i was sure I could go full time by the 5th year....

I surely blame myself for not realising sooner that i could not teach the way I learned. I also did not fully examine the market before deciding to move here. Had I realized that there were 25+ schools in this county I probably would have moved elsewhere...heh, who am I kidding...I followed a girl here

but anyway, I am probably still being foolish in that I do think I can outlast the mcdojo's and at least get to a point where I'm only working part time elsewhere within the next two years without turning into a mcdojo myself.

lol, that just made me think of this:

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

so, i wonder if the mods will let this stand as a blog of sorts????

we are going to do an open house for Chinese New Years on the 17th. Just got a banner done to hang on the building above the sign and will have some of the traditional candies and moon pies and hot tea. I'm going to have a raffle with 3 separate drawings for a free month of classes. Hopefully I will get enough names and emails to start some sort of mailing list...with permission of course.

oh, the other thing I've capitulated on is the shirts...just had some black ones printed up w/ bright green ink. i soooo wanted to stay away from the 'black on black' thing that I think is pretentious as hell. the do look cool but...

anyway, need to finish printing a couple new handbooks and talk to the women's class about participating in the open house and then start adults.

[racerX]

Oso,sounds good on what your doing,I have found out you must cater to your clientele,give them what they want.keep your hardcore students in a more private class.Yes it's hard not to have that selling out feel but were talking about your future,family,needs.2 yrs. is along time to meet some of your goals,when your compition is takeing your income.Go full force enroll all types of students kids,adults,develop a program on who is most interested.Remember if you love to teach it does'nt matter who your teaching,gratification comes from teaching and watching your students grow.You can enroll 35 students in 60 days if you want, just go and get them.

[Oso]

This weeks stats:

Lost: 3

#1 - moving
#2 - thinks 'neija' is more his speed
#3 - college class load too heavy

Gained: 1

8 year old who experienced some sort of martial arts via a school program.

Inquiry: 1

a mother who's daughter has been doing TKD but the mother isn't impressed and wants to find a school with a more 'focused interest in learning'

I thought that interesting to hear. Kinda shows what I've been saying about mcdojo's selling the side effects of good training w/o the training.

She's supposed to bring her daughter in to observe class tomorrow.

[The Xia]

a mother who's daughter has been doing TKD but the mother isn't impressed and wants to find a school with a more 'focused interest in learning'

Sounds like a fancy way of saying "school that actually trains its students" to me.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

This weeks stats:

Lost: 3

#1 - moving
#2 - thinks 'neija' is more his speed
#3 - college class load too heavy

Gained: 1

8 year old who experienced some sort of martial arts via a school program.

Inquiry: 1

a mother who's daughter has been doing TKD but the mother isn't impressed and wants to find a school with a more 'focused interest in learning'

I thought that interesting to hear. Kinda shows what I've been saying about mcdojo's selling the side effects of good training w/o the training.

She's supposed to bring her daughter in to observe class tomorrow.

When people quit, they will come up with all kinds of excuses. Don't listen to them.

The fact is; You got FIRED. Don't listen to the excuses, but listen to your statistics. If you are losing more than you enroll, you'r landlord is destined to have the big ole "FOR RENT" sign in your place in no time.

You have to find the proper medium of what you WANT to teach and what your customers/students WANT to learn. This way everyone is happy.

I suggest you make friends with someone who is doing what you would LIKE to do. Take on a mentor. Don't waste your time running around blind, trying to 'figure it out.' It's already been 'figured out.' Just find a good person or two to learn from and you'll be set.

You are now a business owner (I assumed you recently opened the school), and as a business owner, you must again become a student. You must learn about marketing yourself and your studio. You will have to become a master in finance, sales, reseach and development (that's where a mentor can come in, and if possible and industry association - NAPMA, MAIA, etc) Operations, Management, etc.

The MA business is the best. I've run professional CMA schools for almost 16 years, and I wouldn't ever do anything else for a living. If you do it right, you can produce great students, touch and affect 1000's of families, become an upstanding citizen in your community and earn well in excess of $100,000 per year (per studio!!!!). You can retire in your 50's, and teach for the fun of it. You can build a few schools and leave behind a legacy.

Like I said, I wouldn't do anything else in the world, no matter what.

[yutyeesam]

Amen to what Sifu Parella said.

And also, if you are really serious about the growth of your martial arts school business, get involved with Champions Way. I just recently started with them and am kicking myself for not using their products and services earlier. I haven't even been using them for more than 2 months and already I'm seeing improvements in retention and leads.

But again, it's only if you're serious about taking it to the next level. Taking things to the next level requires us to step out of a penny pinching mindset, which many of have a hard time doing (I did, and now am kicking myself for being that way).

-123

[Oso]

Sounds like a fancy way of saying "school that actually trains its students" to me.

yep. it was not the first time i've heard this lately.

[Oso]

When people quit, they will come up with all kinds of excuses. Don't listen to them.

I don't. I believe I know why each of them quit. And, I don't believe that I would keep any of them no matter what I changed about the classes.

The fact is; You got FIRED. Don't listen to the excuses, but listen to your statistics. If you are losing more than you enroll, you'r landlord is destined to have the big ole "FOR RENT" sign in your place in no time.

I realize that I got fired as you put it. But, I'm not going to keep every single student who walks through the door. Statistically, I've increased enrollment by 50% in the last 3 months.

You have to find the proper medium of what you WANT to teach and what your customers/students WANT to learn. This way everyone is happy.

Agreed. Pretty much already talked about that upthread.

I suggest you make friends with someone who is doing what you would LIKE to do. Take on a mentor. Don't waste your time running around blind, trying to 'figure it out.' It's already been 'figured out.' Just find a good person or two to learn from and you'll be set.

I did that a bit over three years ago. He's been teaching in this town for over 25 years and been involved in martial arts, and commercial martial arts, since the early 60's. But, guess what? His enrollment is down. I don't feel bad that I'm not raking in the money that the ATA and ATF and SDA schools in this town are because, AFAIK, none of them are supporting their owners full time either. The only full time school owner in town happens to be the guy who has become a mentor to me. We meet at least monthly. He's watched me teach, and watched my students train on their own. He's made suggestions and I've listened to them.

You are now a business owner (I assumed you recently opened the school), and as a business owner, you must again become a student. You must learn about marketing yourself and your studio. You will have to become a master in finance, sales, reseach and development (that's where a mentor can come in, and if possible and industry association - NAPMA, MAIA, etc) Operations, Management, etc.

Understood. However, for the time being, I'm going to reinvent the wheel. I just simply don't like the taste of what those big marketing companies say.

The MA business is the best. I've run professional CMA schools for almost 16 years, and I wouldn't ever do anything else for a living. If you do it right, you can produce great students, touch and affect 1000's of families, become an upstanding citizen in your community and earn well in excess of $100,000 per year (per studio!!!!). You can retire in your 50's, and teach for the fun of it. You can build a few schools and leave behind a legacy.

Like I said, I wouldn't do anything else in the world, no matter what.

this market is different. sure, it's the same as a lot of others but there is something different about this market and Shihan (my mentor) and I have talked about it and we both feel it's changing...for the better. In the last two years, one of the biggest babysitter schools closed. i keep hearing what this mother said several times over the last year or so. the marketing image I'm trying to put out there is one of 'hard work over time'. it's not going to capture everyone, but that's ok.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

this market is different. sure, it's the same as a lot of others but there is something different about this market and Shihan (my mentor) and I have talked about it and we both feel it's changing...for the better. In the last two years, one of the biggest babysitter schools closed. i keep hearing what this mother said several times over the last year or so. the marketing image I'm trying to put out there is one of 'hard work over time'. it's not going to capture everyone, but that's ok.

IMHO, you couldn't be more wrong about this first statement. People are the same, all over the country. They want the same things. If I had a nickel for everyone who has ever told me, "No, you don't understand, people in my town are different..." I'd have..... a lot of nickels!

And as far as the

"what those big marketing companies say"

, How you market your school is up to you! If you are refering to ad campaigns that you may have seen from other schools, I suggest you get first hand information from these companies you mention. THEN, make a qualified decision.

Also, learn the difference between advertising and marketing...they are not the same. From your above statement it is clear to me that you may be misinformed about the two and what some companies offer.

Understood. However, for the time being, I'm going to reinvent the wheel.

Please take offense, PERSONALLY, to my next statement:

REIVENTING THE WHEEL IS ABOUT THE DUMBEST, STUPIDEST, MOST FOOLISH THING YOU CAN DO.

Did I get you upset? I hope so. This is a fool's attitude. I hope you have 30 years and very deep pockets for this venture. It will be a long journey.

Do I come off abrasive? I certainly hope so. But I speak from experience. I've been running professional CMA schools for over 15 years, been teaching for 20 and been training for 25. I have had some great mentors in this business, that I WISHED I HAD LISTED TO MORE, WHEN I WAS A FLEDGLING SCHOOL OWNER. I paid quite a bit for those mistakes.

You have/had a martial arts teacher, right? Why bother? Why not just reinvent the wheel there too? Why not learn to fight by picking fights with people, getting pummelled and then trying to learn from your mistakes while you heal and recover from your injuries. Why not do all this on your own without any guidance. Why not let your students fight without teaching them anything.

I'm making fun now, but you can understand the parrallels, right?

Do a good thing for yourself, your family and your students. Learn how to be a professional martial arts instructor and a solid business owner. Go to seminars, conventions, learn CPR. Invest in yourself and your business. Be a professional and help elevate the industry. If you don't, without knowing it, you will be hurting it.

Now, these are just my opinions and you are more than welcomed to disagree with them and knock 'em. But the wheel and fire have already been invented. I don't have to be a super-professional (which I am ) to see that.

I wish you luck and I hope that I have made even the smallest impact upon you.

MP

[Joe Mantis]

oops. I've been lurking but not posting forever.

Oso - big shout out. Glad that you are working your MA business.

I enjoy reading all the talk about "selling out" and Mcdojo's and whatnot (on other threads).

One point that arises is that there seems to be a consenus that Mcdojo's don't teach QUALITY martial arts.

After owning my MA business for 7 years (and only treating it like a business for the last 12 months), I realize that the term "quality" is very subjective.

I think that at first we try to find and force students to take their training as seriously as we did and to want to be the "best" as we did.
However, our clients/students/customers all come to train for different reasons.
If we meet those reasons/"needs" is that "selling out?"

Discuss

[racerX]

NO
Give them WHAT they want.It's a business,like Joe said everybody trains for a different reason.

[Oso]

lol...thanks MP. You certainly have 'impacted' me.


Joe, thanks. Hopefully I'll be back in Tampa before too much longer.

Quality IS subjective. I'm going to keep produce students that conform to my standard of quality martial arts.

Why else bother teaching them at all if you let them set the standard? If they are coming to you for instruction on a subject they are agreeing to try to learn what you have to teach them.

I think that at first we try to find and force students to take their training as seriously as we did and to want to be the "best" as we did.
However, our clients/students/customers all come to train for different reasons.
If we meet those reasons/"needs" is that "selling out?"

no it's not. but, not every school is going to be for every student because each teacher has their own personality that will be reflected in their teaching style. I don't force my students to spar if they don't want to. But, irrelevent of whether they are there for fitness, self-defense or for 'arts' sake...each student still has to meet the same criteria to advance and learn more.

I do work with each student very personally...hell, i don't have that many so it's not difficult at this point to do so. I have one student of 2 years who just can't do a forward roll correctly...I've worked with her one on one many times in an attempt to help her figure it out. I'm not going to hold her back from moving forward in the rest of the material just because she can't figure out how to roll w/o breaking her neck.

gotta go fix more hot tubs....

[lunghushan]

I have one student of 2 years who just can't do a forward roll correctly...I've worked with her one on one many times in an attempt to help her figure it out. I'm not going to hold her back from moving forward in the rest of the material just because she can't figure out how to roll w/o breaking her neck.

One teacher did this with a student who couldn't learn to roll. Get down on his knees and the student on their knees, each side by side, link one arm with one of the student arms, and roll with them.

But honestly I have to agree with Parella for about the first time. He's obviously running a successful school, and while the talk I've been told from 'the street' is that enrollment is down all over, it probably wouldn't hurt to get some tips from somebody like him.

Although I really think that there is a difference between where he is and Asheville in that Asheville has a much more itinerant population with the school and all, and less of an established community base. The community base that is there is probably a lot smaller in relationship to the itinerant community compared to where Parella is.

If I were running a school in Asheville, I'd be focused on keeping a base from within the community, but also signing up as many incoming college students as possible, and then trying to find as many ways as possible to keep them as long as possible.

One of the schools I went to, the Aikido teacher taught on campus, and also ran a school in town. That seemed to be a way to touch both bases.