Cross training with boxing

[Ultimatewingchun]

"I think if your wing chun is lacking then maybe the boxing is good for long range."


***AND I think that even of your wing chun is not lacking that boxing is good for your long range.

[drleungjohn]

--you wanted to do a spinning back kick and go to train it,-because you wanted to-your Wing Chun is lacking?

I think that WCK training would say and teach the right time and circumstance to do it-

Like WSL says-(paraphrase)WCK is a horse you ride,You control it.

[sihing]

--you wanted to do a spinning back kick and go to train it,-because you wanted to-your Wing Chun is lacking?

I think that WCK training would say and teach the right time and circumstance to do it-

Like WSL says-(paraphrase)WCK is a horse you ride,You control it.

Nice words there John.

The question is does one NEED boxing training to make them an effective fighter? No IMO. But it won't hurt you if you decide to train in it after some serious effort in WC first. Visa versa if you are a boxer and want to expand your horizons in another primarily striking art.

Personally I think most people do things not because of necessity but rather because they like to do it. Do we really need to learn Martial Arts in todays world to defend ourselves? Not really, so it is fair to say most of us train in WC for the simple fact that we like it.

James

[drleungjohn]

I have a boxing background at the same time I was doing WCK-Golden Gloves,my first boxing coach was Arthur Mercante,of the Ali/Frazier fights--so for me,when I see martial arts guys say they throw boxing punches,like in self defense or magazine situations-it riles me because they are clueless as to how the proper arsenal of punches is thrown-good hooks or uppercuts are super tough to stop in anyones system due to the cutting or rising angles-and they are so tight at the elbow,it is hard to inject the right shape of hand,at the right time to not take a piece of it

"Know yourself,Know your opponent-100 battles,100 victories"

Or "Be a knife Fighter to defend the knife"-

Or just walk into various schools and fight everybody-yeah,that'll work!!!

[leejunfan]

I love it when "martial artists" under estimate boxers.

"Hey......... dude........ wake up. Yeah..... you got knocked the $@#% out!"

Lacking?....ignorant statement, plain and simple.

[stricker]

Hello all, this is my fist post and dont know if this has been talked about before.
Im learning wing chun at the moment but wanted to know what you guys thought about training boxing aswell. ive been interested in boxing for years but only wanted to train it latley. I feel it might affect my wing chun in a negative way as i dont have a good enough grip on the concepts, ive only trained wing chun for 2 years.
Just seems that the priciples of both styles conflict with each other eg no shoulders in wing chun, no ducking and weaving. i think it would just confuse me.
What are your thoughts on this?

DO IT!!!

one thing (i dont know what anyone else thinks of this?) but muay thai might be more compatible with wing chun than western boxing. thai boxers keep more of an upright posture less bobbing and weaving to avoid kicks and knees. also the footwork may be more similar depending if your all weight on the back leg or 50-50. i think thai boxing has more in common with wing chun. but, boxing may be quicker to pick up what you want from it, and youll get deeper quicker. i love training with boxers, the depth of knowledge they have in how to train correctly, the dynamics of fighting etc etc is awesome. being a bit succeptible to kicks maybe isnt such a big deal

also the naysayers might not actually be speaking from the experience of doing both. i dont think its that hard to keep the mechanics or techniques seperate, and if you get into a fight in the street who cares which comes out the boxing or wing chun

[wingchunmike]

Doing your Wing Chun punches in the air is good but you can also practice them on a traditional Wing Chun wall sandbag.A wallbag is inexpensive & you can find them in a lot of online martial arts stores.

[Paul T England]

Nice to see people responding....

Jus to point out, I don't underestimate boxing, karate or any other system, style or individual. Boxing can take many forms as can wing chun, my only point was that do boxers generally say maybe I should do wing chun so I have a more complete system? I think wing chun has enough but you must train it correctly and have experience and good teaching just like boxing. For some boxers, wing chun could improve what they do and the opposite is true.

Air punching, impact training two person training are all essential for wing chun and boxing. I have learnt many things from watching, reading and talking about boxing. I would even like to spar with boxers to gain valuable experience but I have no interest in training it as for me the body mechanics are very different. I have done some boxing type training via eskrima and JKD seminars and it feels horrible for me.

Paul

[Ultimatewingchun]

" I don't underestimate boxing, karate or any other system, style or individual. Boxing can take many forms as can wing chun, my only point was that do boxers generally say maybe I should do wing chun so I have a more complete system? I think wing chun has enough but you must train it correctly and have experience and good teaching just like boxing." (Paul T)


***OKAY...time for another explanation of why I think that the wing chun fighter (and yes....I'm talking about a skilled one)....why he NEEDS to learn some boxing if he wants to be competitive against a skilled boxer/kickboxer/Thai boxer (ie.- a guy with some very good hands)...

BECAUSE WING CHUN IS A VERY SHORT RANGE STRIKING SYSTEM.

And it's getting to that range (and staying there) that is the dilemma for about 95% of all wing chun fighters I would dare say....

without getting tight hook punched, uppercutted, overhanded, or long round punched into the ground....

and/or kicked into oblivion by a skilled kickboxer or Thai boxer.

................................

Now all that said - there are ways to adapt some boxing hands (and footwork) into the wing chun game very seamlessly in order to get to the wing chun range. You don't have to become an all-out "boxer" per se.

And there are ways of adapting some kicking technique not "usually" associated with wing chun (although for the most part they exist in TWC)...as a supplement to the longer range boxing hands and footwork - to get to the close infight position.

[guy b.]

True, all wing chun people should try boxing at some point. If wing chun compared favourably on hands alone we would see wing chunners winning boxing titles and boxers training wing chun, but we don't. WC has a small window of application and the trick is learning what it is, how to get there and when.

[Lipan]

Sifu Heinrich Pfaff is a primary example of a WT/WC master who has seen and exploited the benefits of cross training in Western Boxing. He has developed a system where these two styles co-exist and compliment each other. Although the system is not limited to the use of these two styles, several of his basic drills require that the practitioner learn to move in and out of the Boxing and WT/WC mentality while under the pressure of defending/offending in combat. Paul T said "I think wing chun has enough but you must train it correctly and have experience and good teaching just like boxing" and up until I began cross training myself I would have completely agreed. Cross training is a good way to fill the voids of the novice WT/WC practioner seeing as the concepts of sensitivity, economy of motion even chain punching and reactions take many years to develop. Why limit yourself to one idea?




Evolution is inevitable.

http://www.ml-maf.com/

http://www.yongtjunconcepts.com/

[guy b.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHaZotAGPIs

hmm, not quite sure what to say

[leejunfan]

[Ultimatewingchun]

Oh, no....

Oh....no, no, no...

[CFT]

Oh wow. I'm so glad they included the slow-er motion bits because I would have missed some important parts otherwise!

Obviously just showing the public versions of the D3adly 4rt of Wing Chun.