My take on the state of Kung Fu

[Eddie]

ai yai yai, this topic seems to have gone the full circle. We back on arguing forms...

[Royal Dragon]

If we have the tools, and we didnt use them, its our own fault. Dont blame the style/ sifu.

Reply]
I can agree on this. For example, if the Sifu offered seperate forms, and sparring classes, and he had the option to choose, and only went to the forms classes. In THAT case, it's HIS fault he can't fight, not the Sifu.

[Infrazael]

interesting... out of curiosity, how do you feel about your muay thai, seeing that it has no forms?

I really enjoy it, however the fundamentals if Muay Thai are different than most of the stuff I learned in CLF. Because I was taught initially without forms, there has never been a need to learn forms of any kind.

However, practicing forms with CLF helps me with my overall structure. I believe that if I learned Muay Boran, I would be more than happy to practice the forms. Once again, comparing a pure ring sport to a CMA is like apples to oranges.

SevenStar, I never directed any negative posts towards you. I'm sorry if it came out that way.

CLF is missing several things which I was interested in, and I am more than happy to point out.

1. Ring Fighting Strategies. My Sifu never really did extensive ring fighting. Therefore, we didn't train for the ring most of the time. Sparring ranged from medium to heavy contact usually.

2. Sifu didn't have that much students. I only had a few regular partners to spar against, therefore I wanted to go and spar MORE people. Nothing wrong with that I think.

3. I wanted to learn Muay Thai, because I thought it was cool. I am still enjoying it very much; if I was gonna learn a ring art and that's it it would be this.

4. I am always open minded, and I do not think CLF is the be-all end-all of fighting whatsoever. I know MMA guys dominate the current MA world, and I wanted to experience first hand why and feel their level of training, and work it into my CLF and vice-versa.

Regards,

Miluo

[Royal Dragon]

I see the post you were replying to now. I think what he may be getting at is how do you know your clf teacher is teaching you to fight with the style? he's saying that you felt the need to go to mma for more exposure and greater opportunity to spar. that beoing the case, it would seem that something is missing combat wise from the clf...

Reply]
That was my impression.

[Eddie]

........CLF is missing several things which I was interested in, and I am more than happy to point out.....

aaaahhh now I get what Royal Dragon was on about.

Miluo, the problems you raised was school issues and not style issues. Is it fair to say 'CLF is missing several things', where in reality it was the training?
There are many skilled CLF (and other traditonal arts) fighters out there.

[Hishaam]

RoyalDragon, If i understand correctly what you say is that "CMA training" lost the urgency that it had in the old chinese military environment to produce effective fighters?

[Royal Dragon]

I think that would be a good way to some up my view.

[Knifefighter]

If we suck at certain skills, its only because we didnt work at it. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with the 'inadiquate and low quality of the training you recieved'.

Not necessarily. If you are training the wrong things with the wrong methods, it has nothing to do with how hard you work. You can train your @$$ off in becoming a ballroom dancer, but no matter how hard you work, it won’t make you a good surfer.

[Knifefighter]

There are many skilled CLF (and other traditonal arts) fighters out there.

Any video around to substantiate that claim?

[Knifefighter]

I think that would be a good way to some up my view.

Is this the same RD who previously was espousing the benefits of forms?

What happened?

Global warming?

[Hishaam]

I think that would be a good way to some up my view.

Thank you for sharing. Very interesting subject and posts.

[Infrazael]

aaaahhh now I get what Royal Dragon was on about.

Miluo, the problems you raised was school issues and not style issues. Is it fair to say 'CLF is missing several things', where in reality it was the training?
There are many skilled CLF (and other traditonal arts) fighters out there.

My CLF training specifically. Not CLF as a whole. My school and my personal training at my Kwoon.

You misinterpret.

[Knifefighter]

Here’s a way you can use a scientific approach to determining how effective your forms training is towards being able to apply it in a fighting environment.

Video yourself and/or your students going through forms. Next record yourself and/or them while doing full-contact sparring/fighting, without stopping and starting over if the encounter goes to the clinch or to the ground.

After you have done this, analyze the movements from both types of sessions and break them down into percentages in which the sparring/fighting looks like the forms movements. This will give you an effective measure of the percentage of effectiveness of your forms training.

I’m betting your full-contact fighting will have very little resemblance to your forms.

[Infrazael]

Is this the same RD who previously was espousing the benefits of forms?

What happened?

Global warming?

No, remember the Virgin Mary came and offered herself to him.

[Infrazael]

Here’s a way you can use a scientific approach to determining how effective your forms training is towards being able to apply it in a fighting environment.

Video yourself and/or your students going through forms. Next record yourself and/or them while doing full-contact sparring/fighting, without stopping and starting over if the encounter goes to the clinch or to the ground.

After you have done this, analyze the movements from both types of sessions and break them down into percentages in which the sparring/fighting looks like the forms movements. This will give you an effective measure of the percentage of effectiveness of your forms training.

I’m betting your full-contact fighting will have very little resemblance to your forms.

That doesn't mean I don't find forms beneficial to my CLF training. Specifically CLF. Not MMA, not Thai Boxing, no Submission Wrestling.

Of course my fighting doesn't look remotely like my forms. I understand the very nature of forms isn't to help improve your fighting directly. And your point is?