How effective are Martial Arts in Self Defence

[Mas Judt]

He started with talking smack and offered to prove his point. He walked away stunned, feeling he needed to rethink his approach. He said he was pretty experienced, but everyone says that to Brian before they get introduced to the ground.


Heel down allows you to engage the spine in developing power. This is a distinct skill that I have only found in CMA. Actually, there IS a bunch of stuff in CMA that just does not exist in the West. but most CMA guys don't realize what is IN Western MA. (Somehow Muay Thai gets clasified this way - but it's not - it is good silat stripped down for sport combat. So no surprise on shared principles.)

[SevenStar]

how does the foot orientation change engage the spine? does it detract in any way from using the ball of the foot, or is it the same, PLUS spine engagement?

[Mas Judt]

Call me.

It's a different mechanic not based on driving the hips or centrifugal force. But easier to explain in conversation.

[SevenStar]

Your phone will ring today.

[Water-quan]

In all, I think the best way to learn to fight is to do something that allows you to fight. .

When it comes sparring time, you should have butterflies and worries. If you don't, then maybe it's time to go on a walk about, train with different people, different places that give you butterflies and worries.

It's easy to stay in a place where yo are dominant... but to fight is frightening, so the only training that can help isn't about style, it's about the daring... the butterflies and worries. Step in to another school, and you'll feel them again...

As for what to do in a fight - every one knows what to do - it's not rocket sceince, lol - it's just the doing it under pressure that is difficult. The only training for that is to put yourself under pressure... butterflies and worries.

[SevenStar]

When it comes sparring time, you should have butterflies and worries. If you don't, then maybe it's time to go on a walk about, train with different people, different places that give you butterflies and worries.

It's easy to stay in a place where yo are dominant... but to fight is frightening, so the only training that can help isn't about style, it's about the daring... the butterflies and worries. Step in to another school, and you'll feel them again...

As for what to do in a fight - every one knows what to do - it's not rocket sceince, lol - it's just the doing it under pressure that is difficult. The only training for that is to put yourself under pressure... butterflies and worries.

sparring is not frightening. I do not get butterflies when I spar, regardless of whether it's someone in my club or from another. It's still sparring. there is an understanding there. In the ring, that's where butterflies come in. There you have an understanding, but a different one - you understand that he wants to knock you out.

[Water-quan]

sparring is not frightening. I do not get butterflies when I spar, regardless of whether it's someone in my club or from another. It's still sparring. there is an understanding there. In the ring, that's where butterflies come in. There you have an understanding, but a different one - you understand that he wants to knock you out.

No butterflies? That means no real danger, or no real care.

[msg]

i know a lot of people that dont have butterflys i never had them dosent mean there no danger just some people are more scaried than others

[Water-quan]

i know a lot of people that dont have butterflys i never had them dosent mean there no danger just some people are more scaried than others

There's no shame in being scared. The greatest of fighters talk of nerves. It;s thepeople who claim no nerves that I distrust. Maybe it's because they stay in clubs where they are the seniors and can easily defeat juniors... or maybe they always maintain a certain level, always fighting people of a certain level, I don't know.

Anyway, that is all just grabbing the surface of what I have said. Having a real fight is a terrifying experience, but experience of terror helps. No amount of so so no risk sparring will surfice as pressure training. To pressure train you need to put yourself under some pressure. Even forms competitors know that when you do it in fornt of a crowdm under the pressure of the competition, all bets are off and everythign is scarier, the legs go weak and so on.

Those who want to play at no fear then good for them - no one is doing anything wrong - it's just different ways and means. Those who actually want any real skill, then one way I have found is to continuosly seek out people who are better than you, whilst at the same time having people who are not as good as you to train with as well - the combination of the two provides excellent means of adapting, testing, practicing and overcoming.

I feel fear plenty. I get butterflies and sometimes wish I wasn't doing it and was anywhere else. Those boxers who feel nothing - well, that's not worth a penny.

[Mas Judt]

You just need to learn how to digest the butterflies. Hmmm. Good eating.

[Bagua8]

martial arts are as effective as you want them to be. everyone has a personal preference. They've been proven through time. tkd was used by koreans to defeat the occupying manchus. ex: The high kicks were useful for kicking them off horseback. Shoalin kung fu was proven its usefulness when bandits attached the shaolin temple and the monks put them in their place. It is better to know many martial arts than 1, each 1 has its strong point.

[JDK]

martial arts are as effective as you want them to be. everyone has a personal preference. They've been proven through time. tkd was used by koreans to defeat the occupying manchus. ex: The high kicks were useful for kicking them off horseback. Shoalin kung fu was proven its usefulness when bandits attached the shaolin temple and the monks put them in their place. It is better to know many martial arts than 1, each 1 has its strong point.

You make a good point Bagua8, in that knowing many styles, technigues, and a variety of cross-training is an indispensable part of today's Martial Artist who desires to be effective in real-life situations.

Each art does have it's strong points and some not-so-strong parts.

In my humble opinion.....we are living in a time not experienced or faced by the fighters of any past generation.
As man has progressed in knowledge and wisdom in every area from medicine to electronics to Physical conditioning ....Why would Supplementation of the practice of fighting with a Variety of styles and different training regimenes not ALSO evolve by 2007 ?

My opinion is this.

The well trained Baqua practioner with several years of consistant, effective teaching and practicing of the 8 Palms, Cirle Walking, etc.....would probabley be able to defend himself against the average untrained fighter...and also a fighter trained in the more Sport orientated arts such as Sport Judo, Korean Traditional Karate, Competition Sport Karate and even the average Western Style Boxer, etc...

The problem we face now as Martial Artist is real life fighting ( not sparring) against trained, cardiovascularly fit, weightlifting, Heavy Bag Hitting, Bulked up men who have learned Grappling, Stand-up, Submissions, Ground fighting, etc... who have now been training in not only Real Competitive Sparring and training...but also Pride Fighting, UFC, Muay Tia, Jujitsu and other Real Contact Events in Rings, Octagons and on the Street.

Today's Martial Artist should be at least aquianted with all of these...and then pick a specialty that suits his Body Style, Strengths and then practice , practice , PRACTICE! FULL CONTACT...FULL OUT IN THE GYM...( WITH Protective Gear)
and then practice the "Softer Internal Arts" to compliment their Real Life Fighting training.

Peace

JDK

[JDK]

sparring is not frightening. I do not get butterflies when I spar, regardless of whether it's someone in my club or from another. It's still sparring. there is an understanding there.

In the ring, that's where butterflies come in. [u]There you have an understanding, but a different one - you understand that he wants to knock you out.!!!!

[/quote]

Love that last sentence.. How true!

Peace
JDK

[SevenStar]

They've been proven through time.

doesn't matter. you can't base YOUR ability NOW on what somebody else did years ago. the art didn't prove itself, the people using them proved themselves.

tkd was used by koreans to defeat the occupying manchus. ex: The high kicks were useful for kicking them off horseback.

I've heard similar about the chinese use of high kicks. I would bet money that it is just a myth. I would really love to see a speeding horseman get taken down of his horse by a flying sidekick. Even if it's true, at what expense to the kicker? He HAD to get injured, I mean come on - he's kicking an armored object moving faster than he is. that means he likely would have injured his leg, resulting in him falling. Then what, he gets trampled by the next horse?

Shoalin kung fu was proven its usefulness when bandits attached the shaolin temple and the monks put them in their place. It is better to know many martial arts than 1, each 1 has its strong point.

in some sense, sure. learn striking and grappling. However, I don't see much benefit to knowing several similar arts. IMO, learning longfist, wing chun, shotokan, CLF, TKD and wado ryu would be pointless.

[BraveMonkey]

MMA’s who compete in tournaments tend to be first and foremost athletes. They train their bodies hard and often times that is what they do for a living. Many of these guys are huge to begin with so they’ve got a lot going for them already since even an untrained guy who is built like a tank is still, well, built like a tank!

The average TMA’s practices in his or her spare time, for a variety of reasons. This type of practitioner may be in great shape but still can’t compete on the level of a professional. Hell, I workout for a couple of hours everyday but I still wouldn’t want to take on an NFL linebacker in a back alley, whether he was an MA-er or not.

So what about the MMA guy who is small and wiry and still whoops butt? It’s still about the training. As it’s been pointed out many many times by a variety of people, you are going to respond to a situation as you are conditioned to respond. If you have an “anything goes” mentality drilled into your brain, then you are going to have an edge over someone who continually things, “block, then strike” or any number of combinations. In a real fight your brain is going to go back to basics and often times complex combos are too advanced for your primitive “fighting” mind to draw upon under stress.

TMA’s can still work well on the street if the training is good. Here is what you need to train to improve your chances of surviving a street altercation (in order):
1. A good mindset. Are you willing to put in the time and take the hurt that comes along with gaining real skill and ability?
2. A good teacher. Do you have someone who knows the game and is willing to let you in on the rules?
3. A good style. This is probably the least important because a good student and a good teacher produce good results, regardless of style.

Also, I’d like to point out that many traditional Chinese martial arts do more than just strike. My school works a lot on ground work along with the strikes and chi na. Do we acquire the same ground skills as a BJJ-er? Probably not, but a street altercation is not a tournament match either. The bottom line is that if you feel that you are lacking in some skill area, then fill in those gaps. Some styles lack certain skills but all too often people jump to studying a different style because they don’t want to put the time into learning what their own style has to offer because it’s not “the best.” Remember that studying a style that is “the best” at something (punching, kicking, ground work) is not going to make YOU the best at it. Mixing up your arts can be a good thing, but you don’t always have to do so to be well-rounded and competent.