Absurd use of Conservatism vs. Liberalism in some shools

[xcakid]

Yeah, basic calculator is a must in my old Jr HS and HS. We stopped using paper after elementary.

I went to Catholic school up till 9th Grade. I was never in any special class in Catholic school. However, H.S. public school I was put in Honors class. I was being taught stuff in 9th grade I already learned in 8th grade.

Just depends on the school system on what they view as "advanced" or "honors" class. I has nothing to do with race.

Hell, I do bond math for a living. Yield to maturity, convexity and modified and maucauley duration calculations as well as beta, standard deviation and calculating vega on options pricing. Yet I have hard time adding up things in my grocery cart or figuring out tax on my bar tab.

[golden arhat]

All liberalism is, is a movement towards tolerance and free-thinking. It's a way of thinking that promotes the idea that people should live as they see fit (as long as it doesn't harm other people) rather than living as *I* see fit. I would hope that teachers and professors would in fact instill the idea people should have open minds and broad perspectives, rather than trying to instill strict boundaries on what is and is not okay based on personal biases and/or religious dogma.

thats going in my signiature

edited a bit for space tho

[Mas Judt]

Having traveled to the 'enlightened' Warsaw Pact & Soviet Union - before the 'workers' rose up and lynched thier oppressors - I can clearly say that Socialism is a disaster whereever applied. Socialism in our schools has been destroying our culture by replaceing a culture of independence with one of dependance - all while proclaiming how 'free' we are. Yet when someone like Boulder talks, I can hear his chains clanking.


www.ronpaul2008.com - this is what liberalism was in this country before the word got hijacked by socialists and pedophiles.

[Black Jack II]

Fux,

Bangs head against wall....stay on context.

We are talking about the school system here and its history. Which btw is the total f@ck up of social democrats.

Enjoy.

[BoulderDawg]

I don't under the concept of "Socialism" in the classroom. All I know is that liberals want equal treatment for all in the classroom. If its socialism to suggest that one group of students be treated as another group then so be it.

As far as teaching itself, liberals want strict academic standards. Lets leave the Pledge of alligence, creation theory and bible classes to others. While other schools are spending 15 minutes a day with moments of silence, pledges to George Bush and so on the students in my liberal school will be studying.

[golden arhat]

I don't under the concept of "Socialism" in the classroom. All I know is that liberals want equal treatment for all in the classroom. If its socialism to suggest that one group of students be treated as another group then so be it.

As far as teaching itself, liberals want strict academic standards. Lets leave the Pledge of alligence, creation theory and bible classes to others. While other schools are spending 15 minutes a day with moments of silence, pledges to George Bush and so on the students in my liberal school will be studying.

pledges to george bush LOL

[BraveMonkey]

Problems with American schools have nothing to do with social liberalism and everything to do with budget issues and pressure to perform in standardized testing. Add in a little poverty and ethnic tension and you've got the formula for struggle.

Sorry to burst your bubble but you can't point the finger at the democrats and blame them for squat when it comes to the quality education. If you don't like an open approach to classroom interaction or creative and innovative presentation of required materials then you probably won't understand why so many students struggle and you will fail to understand why "no child left behind" leaves a lot of children behind and manages to frustrate and confound the teachers who are burdened by it.

If you think it's wrong to teach tolerance for hom0sexuality, or that evolution is a viable theory of biological change and variety, or that the minutia of human sexual behavior is appropriate material for a public education, that is your right to think so. But the teachers who think differently are the ones that are broadening minds instead of shutting them down. Neither "liberal" teachers nor democrats keep you from taking your kids to church nor helping them to understand what beliefs and values are important to you. A public education cannot and should not cater the the personal bias of any parent or group of parents, no matter how important they think they are.

[Becca]

That is because they never learned math in the first place. They learned how to use a calculator.

I hated it when they did that to my daughter, but you are pretty much forced to go along with it if you can't afford a priviate school.

Since when did cheating become so acceptable that it is actually promoted and required by the teacher??

Or teach them yourself... shesh, expecting a parent to involve themselves in thier child's education???

[SanHeChuan]

School districts who get money misuse it. The money goes into the hands of the admistrators, not the school it's self. The admistractors spend the money on themselves first. When the money does get to the school, it's spent on oympic style pools, etc. What they need is more classrooms and teachers to put in them. In order to attract more and better qualified teachers, they need to pay them more.

[Mas Judt]

Look, my cousins in Germany come out of school able to read, write and speak three languages.

Thier schools are rigourous - taught in local lingua franca, not multiple languages (although multiple languages are taught) - and testing standards are high. Tough schools WORK.

The problem with American schools aren't standardized tests, it is the lack of academic rigor and an anemic, lazy batch of educators whose union fights for things that hurt the students rather than helps them. Not to mention parasitic selfish parents who don't care enough to get involved. (or teat-sucking welfare bums. My lord have I seen enough of that as a landlord.)

The left is not entirely wrong on keeping religion out of the schools - you go to the rural midWest and you meet crazy pentacostals who say "we don't care about math and science, we care about what Jesus thought about math and science."

Honestly, there is nothing wrong with a good secular education, although I don't beleive that should prevent historic traditions such as Christmas or Halloween from being celebrated in schools.

Most educated folks probably agree with these statements - but are too busy fighting over minutiae to realize it. A little competition would be good to fix things up.

While I like the idea of school vouchers - the thought of Islamic schools spreading hate and ignorance, or for that matter fundamentalists spreading ignorance scares the p!ss out of me. But that does not mean the current, failed system gets my support either.

[Becca]

... Not to mention parasitic selfish parents who don't care enough to get involved...

Yep. If my kids need help with homework, I'm not going to let them struggle alone while I whine because I can't aford Sylvin or some other after school money sump. I'm going to help them with thier homework. If I can't figure it out myself, then I REALLY need to work on those skills myself anyway.

There are all kinds of ways to help you kid if you don't know the material yourself. I personally call my oldest boy's teachers to find out what they are planning on teaching in the next week, month, whatever. Then I go google it if I don't know what it is. It's not hard. It's not even time consuming; Heck, I spend more time goofing off on this board than I do researching my kids' future homework topics...

Standardized tests are pretty much worthless for anything but a scape goat, but the scape goat has never been the root of a problem. The same can be said for pop quizzes. They can give a teacher a valuble insite into his/her class's work level. Or it can tell her if they ate breakfast or not, as a kid who didn't eat well is going to do worse...

I see no point in blaming... It doesn't help anyone. It doen't even make me feel better.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Or teach them yourself... shesh, expecting a parent to involve themselves in thier child's education???

Reply]
And what makes you think I didn't? Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a High school student to work out math equasions WITHOUT a calculator when her TEACHER'S require them?

I will tell you what happens,it generates the entire school season of fighting, arguing, stress, rebellion and bitter heartbreak in the home and creates a kid who thinks her father is an oppressive overlord, THAT is what happens. It got to a point where I was so upset, for such a high percentage of the time that I could not even sleep at nite.

The attempt to force her to do math by hand when her teachers not only didn't require it, but ADVOCATED cheating with a calculator got to be a case where it was causing more damage than good. I had to stop doing it for my own sanity, and her's. The insistance that she do math by hand turned into such an enormous battle that the stress of it was bleeding over into my work, sleep and everything. It got so we both hated eachother for a while, and the family life was breaking down from the CONSTANT fighting and battle that ensued. You just cannot go the entire school year with a sick burnt feeling constantly in your stomach...your a moron if you think that is healthy!

Now, if I had support from her stupid teachers who would realise using a frik'n calculator was cheating, and punished kids for doing so none of this would have been a problem because we would all be on the same page. But you can't have one kid trying to do her work right, while the rest of the class gets to cheat WITH THE TEACHER'S SUPPORT **AND** DIRECTION!!!

I have enough on my plate trying to keep a roof over our heads and food in the fridge. if I was in a position to home school her through highschool, I wouldn't have been sending her to moronic modern and USELESS school in the frik'n first place!!

So don't EVEN get me started on the Teach them yourself crap!!

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Yeah, basic calculator is a must in my old Jr HS and HS. We stopped using paper after elementary.

Reply]
In my day a calculator was grounds for a detention for cheating. We actually were required to learn the material being taught. Cheating was not allowed.

Today Cheating is not only not a punishable offense, it is REQUIRED by the idiots posing as teachers!

In my day doing algebra was a mental exercise. we were able to look at the numbers, follow the algebraic formula and the answers just came to us. Why was this the norm back then? because we had memorized and used our math tables so extensively that they became like a language.

You put an algebraic equation in front of a kid today, and they couldn't even think about doing it until the calculator was found.

In my day the first step would have been to solve for X.

Today the first step is to find the calculator and make IT do the work so you don't have to.

[YiLiQuan1]

The conservatives make their points through fear:

Conservatives can also make their points through common sense and a sense of history.

The liberals make their points through education and respect:

Liberals can also make their points through over-sensitivity and misplaced idealism.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Socialism in our schools has been destroying our culture by replaceing a culture of independence with one of dependance - all while proclaiming how 'free' we are.

that can just as easily be scapegoated by conservatism and unchecked capitalism.