Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun

[taltos]

I wish we could act all more like kung fu brothers............... well I guess we do, but unfortunately it's Cain and Abel.

So true.

At our school (and on the hfy108 site) there is a banner that reads (translation)... "In all directions, there is one family." If only we could all act as if we actually believed it. I mean, family can disagree (I've had some knock-down drag-outs with my brother in my day), but in the end, family is family. What a concept, and thanks for the reminder.

-Levi

[Wayfaring]

For a martial art that is "underground" and "shrouded in mystery" there certainly seem to be a h3ll of a lot of publicly accessible seminars (1-3 per year), books, and schools open to the public to drop by and train at.

[Tom Kagan]

Hey Victor,
According to this video HFY is "underground" and may not be shown to the general public. Make sure that you read the full description that comes with the video. I just thought you might find it interesting.

Oh man. That's Milton Wallace.
http://www.bullshido.com/articles/milton-wallace-4.html

Regardless of whatever anyone's perspective of these issues are, dragging this guy out as anything to support or counter a claim related to the posts here is completely unreasonable.

[anerlich]

Hey Tom,

interesting reading. That guy sounds like a complete nut job.

FWIW, the stuff he did on the vid bears some tenuous similarities to the TWC forms. But the angles are all wrong, and that flicky finger stuff on bil jee is laughable.

[anerlich]

but in the end, family is family

I'm fairly unimpressed when people play the "family" card.

I know that back in the day, when you joined a KF school you effectively became part of the Sifu's family. But in the 21st century, you are joining a club, academy or association. To blur the lines of the relationship with "family" is IMO to open the door to the type of abuse that occurs in cults. I've had the misfortune to have been involved with a school that worked along those lines about 25 years ago. It can and does happen.

I was born into a good family and have no interest in joining another.

Charles Manson had a "family" too. That worked out well, didn't it?

I know others feel differently, but I generally check my wallet's still in my pocket and politely refuse the kool-aid when a Sifu starts talking like this.

[duende]

Hey Tom,

interesting reading. That guy sounds like a complete nut job.

FWIW, the stuff he did on the vid bears some tenuous similarities to the TWC forms. But the angles are all wrong, and that flicky finger stuff on bil jee is laughable.

That's Milton doing some YM WC he learned not HFY. Which btw... he clearly states in the video's dialog. Anyways he is both a friend and old classmate of mine from before we went public. Hence his ussage of the term underground.

As for the Bullshido "investigation", what they have written up, and what my true life experiences with the guy have been are two very different things. I know Milton and I also know a witchhunt when I see one. According to Milton, none of those Bullshido guys ever showed up to meet with him much less step into a ring with him. Nor would they ever give him any of their true names. Do the math.

Now my experience with Bullshido is this.... keep in mind that I've been following that site pretty much since it started years ago. Most of the original people aren't there anymore, and if they are, they rarely post. Why is that??? Hmmmm...

Anyways... Tom maybe you can tell us why you advertise yourself as a practioner or "Chinese boxing" and not Wing Chun. Could it be because that they'd be all over you with their group think prejudices against Wing Chun??

But whatever.... I don't put much stock into any of this Internet stuff. The one thing that is truly screwed however is that now Milton has a bunch of white supremacy freaks threatening him with phone calls and sending him hate emails.

That's F U C T.

So I'm done with Bullshido. It's all yours Tom... enjoy!

[Savi]

Savi,

To try and get back on the original subject, you mentioned HFY's Kiu Sau. As you said, from your experience, you did not see much of this technology in YMWC. But it is present in other Southern China systems. Can you explain how it differs from these systems? Or, a better way to ask, can you explain how it is unique as a bridging platform - what sets it apart?

Jonathan

Sorry for the delay Jonathan. I'll answer your question in the morning (Saturday morning). Just to let you know, that's one heck of a question to answer... but not in terms of being 'difficult' more than 'involved'... definitely something I'd LOVE to share with everyone!

Regards,
Savi.

PS:
Sihing73, is there anything in particular that you would like me to clarify about what I have written from the first page? I'd be more than happy to see how I can help you, because it indirectly helps me to communicate better with my audience on these things. Your input is much appreciated.

[t_niehoff]

That's Milton doing some YM WC he learned not HFY. Which btw... he clearly states in the video's dialog. Anyways he is both a friend and old classmate of mine from before we went public. Hence his ussage of the term underground.

As for the Bullshido "investigation", what they have written up, and what my true life experiences with the guy have been are two very different things. I know Milton and I also know a witchhunt when I see one. According to Milton, none of those Bullshido guys ever showed up to meet with him much less step into a ring with him. Nor would they ever give him any of their true names. Do the math.

Now my experience with Bullshido is this.... keep in mind that I've been following that site pretty much since it started years ago. Most of the original people aren't there anymore, and if they are, they rarely post. Why is that??? Hmmmm...

Anyways... Tom maybe you can tell us why you advertise yourself as a practioner or "Chinese boxing" and not Wing Chun. Could it be because that they'd be all over you with their group think prejudices against Wing Chun??

But whatever.... I don't put much stock into any of this Internet stuff. The one thing that is truly screwed however is that now Milton has a bunch of white supremacy freaks threatening him with phone calls and sending him hate emails.

That's F U C T.

So I'm done with Bullshido. It's all yours Tom... enjoy!

So you are standing by Milton? And are you saying that his claims are true? He is your premeir HFY NHB fighter -- as was implied on the HFY108 forum?

[Matrix]

Regardless of whatever anyone's perspective of these issues are, dragging this guy out as anything to support or counter a claim related to the posts here is completely unreasonable.

Tom,
Well that's part of the problem isn't it? Lots of people making claims about this system and that lineage. You're never quite sure if what you're being told id true or not. I'm sure there are guys like that in every family.

By the way, thanks for the link. It's quite interesting.

[Matrix]

That's Milton doing some YM WC he learned not HFY. Which btw... he clearly states in the video's dialog.

Duende,
It doesn't even look like YM WC to me, but based on the bio that Tom posted I suspect that he's got some mish-mash of systems patched together from information picked up from multiple sources including his imagination.

My apologies to those HFY folks out there for bringing this guy into the discussion.

[Matrix]

I'm fairly unimpressed when people play the "family" card.

My point is that there is too much in-figthing in the WC world. We waste a lot of time and energy arguing about silliness. We even argue over the romanization of WC/VT/WT and which one is trademarked etc. I think this just adds to the weak view of WC in the martial arts community.

[Tom Kagan]

According to Milton, none of those Bullshido guys ever showed up to meet with him much less step into a ring with him. Nor would they ever give him any of their true names. Do the math.

You have just made it clear you didn't read the link. You wouldn't have said this if you did. Regardless, if Milton is now ready to meet with at least two people who not only gave their names to him, but approached him respectfully and with no agenda other than to give him a fair shake, all he has to do is set up a time and place to meet. (He hasn't done that, preferring to add further roadblocks in the way of trying to clear up the the matter and exhibiting increasingly odd behavior.)

Still, if you now want to claim Milton as your own and hold him out as an example of your Kung Fu, let me know and I will completely retract my last post. Also, if you wish, I will lobby the staff at Bullshido to update Milton's profile to indicate that, regardless of what Garrett Gee said in a phone interview, Milton Wallace is indeed a proper high level practitioner/representative of the students at your school. Let me know how you wish to proceed.

The one thing that is truly screwed however is that now Milton has a bunch of white supremacy freaks threatening him with phone calls and sending him hate emails.

Obviously, you haven't been reading his email and PMs he sends people. Also, it is appears you have no idea who is trying to contact him or their ethnicities. (Nice try on playing the race card, though.)

Anyways... Tom maybe you can tell us why you advertise yourself as a practioner or "Chinese boxing" and not Wing Chun. Could it be because that they'd be all over you with their group think prejudices against Wing Chun??

What are you talking about? It is quite clear from my profile and my posts there I don't hide anything about me or the fact that I am a practitioner of Ving Tsun. (Besides, are you now suggesting Ving Tsun is not Chinese Boxing? ) Once again, you starting devolve into ad-hominem.



There are plenty of places to express views regarding MA. Bullshido, however, is a rip roaring, thoroughly obnoxious, locker room "snap fest" of a place. It is not very reassuring - no hugs, no tea, not much 'attaboy' mutual butt-scratching, and a rather low signal-to-noise ratio.

Sure, you need a thick skin over there. Those who wear their heart on their sleeve, or caught up in their "image" instead of "performance", or have a chip on their shoulder, or something to prove don't usually last long. But for those who prefer to look at the MA world through the dark lens - the murky, creepy, sink or swim one - that place is absolute bliss.



(At least you can take solace in the irony of doing exactly what you supposedly dislike about Bullshido.)

[Tom Kagan]

My point is that there is too much in-figthing in the WC world. We waste a lot of time and energy arguing about silliness. We even argue over the romanization of WC/VT/WT and which one is trademarked etc. I think this just adds to the weak view of WC in the martial arts community.

IMO, in-fighting has little to do with "the weak view of WC in the martial arts community." In-fighting is everywhere in all styles. For instance: Absolutely nothing nothing occurring WC could hold a candle to the near constant squabbles/lawsuits between the Judo federations and between their members. Heck more than one Judo "family squabble" made it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.

[t_niehoff]

My apologies to those HFY folks out there for bringing this guy into the discussion.

Why? Many of the HFY guys themselves were touting Milton as one of the HFY fighters on the HFY108 forum not too long ago -- they even posted some testimonial by Milton on Gee and HFY, and suggested that Milton was ready and willing to defend HFY's "honor". Surely they haven't abandoned him?

[t_niehoff]

IMO, in-fighting has little to do with "the weak view of WC in the martial arts community." In-fighting is everywhere in all styles. For instance: Absolutely nothing nothing occurring WC could hold a candle to the near constant squabbles/lawsuits between the Judo federations and between their members. Heck more than one Judo "family squabble" made it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.

WCK's reputation among people involved in the fighting arts, like aikido's and tai ji's reputation, and like all TMA's reputations, comes from one thing: that the overwhelming majority of WCK practitioners, including the "masters" and "grandmasters" have little to no real fighting skills.