Making a PM public

[PangQuan]

not that I care all that much but I will throw in my 2cents.

If you are going to send a message to someone on the internet, thats your deal.

If I send a message to someone, yes I am sending it for them to read for themselves.

At the same time I do not send PM's to people I may think will make them public, and if I do, I only send information I would not mind made public.

Thats just how the internet works people. You have to realize there is nothing TRULY PERSONAL on the internet.

thats for letters, phone calls, and in person talks, IN REAL LIFE!

anything you ever do on the internet you should do with the full knowledge it is wholey public and will be given out, scrutinized, made fun of, laughed at, applauded, praised, ****ed on, stepped on, etc.

its the internet.....its the internet....its the internet....sink in yet?

[GeneChing]

Posting PMs is by definition, poor netiquette. That's obvious to anyone, even a troll. Personally, I never share PMs. I appreciate some of the kind comments people have left about me above - if I've earned any of them, it's because I maintain confidentiality. You have no idea how many secrets I keep. That being said, I also attempt to be as prudent about every email I send. It's one of the most challenging aspects of my job since I send hundreds of emails a week. But as a professional writer, I am very aware of the power of word, so I always give me best effort at being as appropriate as possible, even on this forum.

Notintheface, Bodhitree has been one of our mods for a long time. He's contributed a great deal of time and effort to keeping our forum here running smoothly. I stand behind his decisions and I think it's admirable of him to have given you as much rope as he has. If you were in my face like you are in his now, I would have banned you long ago. Until now, I've totally empowered him to decide your fate on this forum. However, given this thread, I'm now considering overriding Bodhitree's decision to allow you to remain. If Bodhitree asks, I'll ban you immediately. But I might just ban you before he asks, if you keep this up. I have far better things to do then explain obvious netiquette to you.

[cjurakpt]

if there is a version of "caveat emptor" for PM senders, then I think they should have it emblazoned on their monitors somewhere;

in fact, I always send a PM as if it is something that might be posted at some point, so I censure myself even moreso than I do when posting publically!

here's how it is, IMHO: a PM is not used to send something that ought not to be posted publically - it is done simply to have a conversation that could occur publically, but is done with the convenience of not having any distracting chatter in the form of other posts

at the same time, if it's an exchange between two folks who have the arrived agreement of "secrecy", to post the contents is definitely bad form...but should not neccesarilly be actionable for the reasons stated above, IMHO

HOWEVER, to send an unsolicited PM to someone, especially a chastizing or hostile one, and one that could be used as ammo to back up a public confrontation between the two people - hey, too bad for the sender...

finally, realize that the content of a PM can be edited or even made up completely, leading to at least temporary confusion, until (if) a mod comes in and corrects that (I assume they can access the actual text if need be to verify the authenticity), so take it all with a grain of salt, right?

2 ¢...

[PangQuan]

Me thinks the Banninator is taking his belt off!

[Notintheface]

Notintheface, Bodhitree has been one of our mods for a long time. He's contributed a great deal of time and effort to keeping our forum here running smoothly. I stand behind his decisions and I think it's admirable of him to have given you as much rope as he has. If you were in my face like you are in his now, I would have banned you long ago. Until now, I've totally empowered him to decide your fate on this forum. [. I have far better things to do then explain obvious netiquette to you.

Then I'll be honest then Gene, I'll take the ban. Because All I am doing is challenging a perceived ettiquette extended bewteen to indivudals that agree upon secretcy and privacy and I have never extended that hand. In challenging this, am doing something wrong then so be it i'll go down for that.

Ask to read the pms sent back and forth between us and the penalties I was given. Publishing a pm=insult. that is down right silly.

SIZE="3"]However, given this thread, I'm now considering overriding Bodhitree's decision to allow you to remain. If Bodhitree asks, I'll ban [/SIZE]you immediately. But I might just ban you before he asks, if you keep this up

Have I disrespected anyone in this thread? Actually a good debate on netiquette is going on becasue I posed this question.

He's contributed a great deal of time and effort to keeping our forum here running smoothly. I stand behind his decisions and I think it's admirable of him to have given you as much rope as he has.

I have not doubted his contributions to this forum but I am questions his current dealings with me. given me as much rope, please I have seen people here do much worse and still be around.

I appreciate that Bodhitree has kept me from being banned and I appreciate that but at the same time does that mean I should not still question policy? Or publicly speak up about what I feel is skewed forum practices?

[Notintheface]

I'll take the BANN that is not the problem but if the responses to this post are indicitve of what people think then I am not alone....Also it would be nice to have it in a FAQ somewhere so others would not make that mistake in the future.

[PangQuan]

wouldnt it be funny if Notintheface was Bodhitree !

[Notintheface]

lol now that would the ultimate troll.....

[GeneChing]

That's all I had to hear. Thanks for making my job easier.

[cjurakpt]

That's all I had to hear. Thanks for making my job easier.

with all due respect, I think that's an unfortunate choice: despite his moniker and his MO in some regards, he has made some valuable contributions here - kind of like the guy in the Gurdjieff commune who constantly irritated everyone else, who Gurdjieff had actually "planted" there to do just that...personally, I found him refreshing and he played the roll of "chorus" rather nicely in several instances...

furthermore, there are at least 5 or so "individuals" (Noone, Mega Foot, Truthman, HungaNYC)who should have been removed for really obnoxious trolling way before this guy; it's true he "broke" some rules, but at the same time, he explained himself coherently, and obviously is not the only one who is of that opinion

and I think his "asking" for the ban was his way of simply stating that he is what he is, he's not gonna change his ways to avoid it;

that said, if you want to ban him for all that, please go ahead and ban me as well - it's been fun, but if this is what it's come to, I'll go down with him...

Edit: BTW, we are not the same person, if anyone is wondering

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Notintheface,

Just the name PM (Private message) implies a private conversation and it is reasonable to expect the communication would remain private. If the person wanted to communicate publicly they would have. Private means private for a reason. The title "Private Message" communicates to the receiver that the sender intends for the message to be private and remain private unless otherwise specified by mutual agreement.

To publicly post a private message is clearly a sign of poor manners and poor judgment on the part of the revealer of the message. It is immaterial whether one shouldn't be surprised if their message is made public because it was sent over the Internet. I agree with the "participator beware" mentality, however that does not justify posting another's private message without their approval, it merely explains it. The act is not just poor manners, in some cases. and this one is a good example, it reveals immaturity.

Even the fact you are publicly whining about your treatment from a moderator reveals your lack of character. You should have sent a PM to the moderator first and tried to handle your complaint privately. If you did not receive a satisfactory response then you can always PM Gene.

Since you have been on this board you have repeatedly complained publicly about private matters and revealed numerous private messages. You have been given another opportunity to improve your behavior by Bodhi and yet you continue to reveal a PM publicly. Your behavior is similar to a child trying to justify his misbehavior by looking for support from his friends.

The solution to your problem is very simple. If you have a question about the rules take it up with the moderators or Gene. If you don't like the rules go play somewhere else where the rules are more to your liking.

But for God's sake stop whining and complaining about how others are treating you by revealing their PM's to everyone else.

If you don't want to hear from some people. put them on your ignore list!

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi cjurakpt,

You are comparing apples to oranges here!

[cjurakpt]

Hi cjurakpt,

You are comparing apples to oranges here!

both still fruit... (ok, ok, I'm guessing you were holding the door wide open for me on that...)

anyway, maybe I haven't read through all his stuff that thoroughly, but given the specific context of at least the latest "infraction", I still think he should not be banned, just my opinion...

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi cjurakpt,

LOL, well, what I mean is that you have an established reputation here. The reputation that Notintheface is establishing is, let us say, of a lesser quality. Within any group respect is earned over time, therefore mis-steps of conduct are more readily forgiven when a person's history (reputation) speaks for them. This is a universal phenomenon found within all groups.

If Notintheface had taken some time to establish a pattern of behavior that is generally respected, his behavior "might" be given a bit more latitude. However, even when he is corrected in his conduct he feels the need to make it public. So he compounds immature behavior with more immature behavior. This is a quality that does not build respect and clearly does NOT apply to you.

Even chaos has order to it, even the Wild West had inherent rules of conduct, so do Internet BB's. The host gets to make the rules and it is up to each participant to decide for themselves whether they want to follow them.

As an aside, I am not lobbying for the banning of Notintheface. To my knowledge this BB is not a democracy. I try to abide by the rules and I do not think it is unreasonable expect others to do so as well. But in the end it is up to the moderators and Gene. I respect their judgment because it is their responsibility to maintain some sense of order. If I don't like it I can go else where too.

As a second aside, on one occasion in the past, on another MA BB, one of the participants wanted to include something I wrote publicly in a non-BB article they were writing. They asked me for my permission even though I had posted my comments publicly. It is just polite to do so and when I was asked my respect for the individual grew, it did NOT diminish. There is a lesson in their conduct I think.

[cjurakpt]

fair enough...and yes, I agree you are not advocating banning per se, just giving a reasoned perspective...and maybe, for whatever reason, I am using some of my credit in the bank on his behalf (maybe 'cause I think I know who he is as well, and am going on that "hunch"?); anyway...