Silly Question, but I'll ask anyway.

[Lugoman]

Are there any solo exercises to help in chi sao?

I don't get to chi sao much since I'm so new and I definitely lack in forward energy and the ability to keep my elbows in.

[TenTigers]

some people find using the rataan ring helps with elbow position, fluidity, and smooth transitions from bong/tan.

[Lugoman]

some people find using the rataan ring helps with elbow position, fluidity, and smooth transitions from bong/tan.

I've seen the rings in magazines but never knew what they were used for.

Do you put them behind the elbows when doing solo rolling? Seems like the ring would slide off the fook if you didn't.

Thank you.

[TenTigers]

Randy Williams has a dvd dealing soley with the rataan ring, I believe.

[Lugoman]

Randy Williams has a dvd dealing soley with the rataan ring, I believe.

Cool, thank you so much.

[Liddel]

Are there any solo exercises to help in chi sao

Just as a side note - have you seen the movie - "The prodigal son"

Is it Cheung Bo or Leung Yee Tie that has a bamboo contraption for chi sao training, when i saw the movie i was like WTF is that ?

You could always build something like that.....

DREW

[Wu Wei Wu]

Hi,

Jesse Glover showed me a way to use resistance bands to help create forward pressure when doing solo chi sao position changes. PM me if you would like details.

Whatever you do, do so cautiously as you may end up creating bad habits. There is no substitute for a training partner.

WWW

[aelward]

This may sound ridiculous, but I find that lying on your back and doing poon sao is helpful. It creates a downward resistance which, when you are lying on your back, translates to development of forward pressure. You can add a couple of iron wrist rings to help.

IMO, this is better than rattan rings, which cause your arms to develop laterally because of the inside resistance; or from standing iron wrist rings, which have downward resistance, and specifically where the leverage is the worst, causing you to develop stiffer delts.

[monji112000]

Cool, thank you so much.

don't waste your money. Rattan rings force you to put pressure outwards.. even a little its a bad idea. Pressure should be linear, IE forward and backward.

You can shadow chi sao. It sounds stupid, but once you learn a few setups, counters, lop sao, basic rolling , free chi sao ect..
You can combine them and imagine your opponent. Imagine his reaction, thinking that he will always detect your plan, and quickly counter it.
It works, shadow chi sao and shadow boxing are really great tools for Wing Chun.
you can't replace a live person though..

[byond1]

Rattan rings do not force you to put preasure outward. One only does that when one hasnt been properly trained or misunderstands what one has been taught. Rattan ring training has been used in YKS WCK for almost 100 years that we know about.

The key to any training tool, is to understand how to use it or you will train the incorrect things. I cant vouch for Randy williams DVD nor his approach to the Ring, but can vouch for there being authentic uses.

You can train on a Juk Jong or Bamboo Jong, as well, which is a very responsive Jong, that gives you pressure to react to, and is one of the core tools for training Snake Hand WCK.

Training forward intent is of utmost importance to Tang Huen(Rattan Ring) and Juk Jong. This can also be trained with a wall! For example - placing a Dim Jeung/Jik Jeung (verticle palm) on a wall, and apply forward pressure. If your horse isnt good, you will uproot yourself. Its a usefull tool to judge ones root and forward pressure ratio.

Best of luck to you.


B

[byond1]

P.S

The size of the ring is paramount to it working correct. Overlarge size rings will force you to do incorrect things to make use of it. And it isnt placed on the wrist.

What you can train with it is also hingent upon what style WCK you practise. The H.K horizontal hand fook, has no place that I know of in Rattan ring training.

[YungChun]

Are there any solo exercises to help in chi sao?

I don't get to chi sao much since I'm so new and I definitely lack in forward energy and the ability to keep my elbows in.

1. Play your FORM(s)...!

Forward energy and elbow position are elements found in the SLT.. Many folks feel playing the form helped them pick up these things..

2. Learn the correct conditions for each technique and the correct mechanics/concepts of the moves..

Without the correct conditions you won't be able to apply the moves right..

3. Find freinds that are interested and show them what you know. Work with them on drills, etc.. when you have no one else to work with.

4. Work the movements alone in the air if there is no one else to work with and try to get the movements correct along with footwork and structure...


5. Build a little dummy arm that you can mount on a wall or tree and work with that....


6. Do your homework--whatever that is.. Hitting the sandbag, heavy bag, forms, punches, kicks, etc... I bet there is a lot of leftover homework...

HTH

[Lugoman]

Thank you everyone for your replies, this is a lot of information to digest so I will pore over it for awhile and see what I can work with.

In the mean time, I had brainstorm (or was it a light sprinkle?) last night. I have an 12lbs medicine ball that I was toying with. I began rolling it in a poon sua fashion between my forearms, it was impossible to maintain because at some point it would slip out and fall to the ground.

So then I got down on the floor lying on my back and did the same and it tired me out pretty quickly. I did have to keep the preasure forward and my elbows close or catch it in the chest or stomach.

However, in order to do this requires one arm to be more forward than the other, particularly when forming the bong sua, and does nothing for structure etc.

Any thoughts on this?

[anerlich]

In the mean time, I had brainstorm (or was it a light sprinkle?) last night.

Sweet.

Like one of my treachers says al lthe time,

"What's your best training tool? ..... IMAGINATION"

I haven't really tried to work out any solo training stuff for chi sao, but I have come up with a number of solo heavy bag drills for BJJ on my own. Also a number of ways to drill certain open guard sweeps and subs using a belt and the bannisters on my stairwell.

[Lindley]

Lugoman,

This is by far NOT a silly question! It is actually a genuine one.

As mentioned, to address the elbows in, play your Siu Nim Tao form A LOT. Also, try playing the first section with the tan sao/fuk sao movements (often referred to as the three prayers to Budda) very, very slowly. See if you can work to playing that section alone for 20 minutes (Si-Ti Gung Yip Man has been known to do it for an hour). Your hands move ever so slowly and your mind is out to some imaginable place. This we refer to as "Nim Tao", where your hands begin to seek the center without thought. Also, start to put your mind in your elbows and have your elbows go along your body until your wrist and middle finger are in center. Playing the Siu Nim Tao form should be central to this development. Other exercises should support this.

As for forward energy, one cannot study what they do not understand. Define what this is to you and language it. This will be accompllished primarily by playing with a partner, although since you say you are along one thought might be to use a Muk Jong (wooden dummy) or other stationary object simulating an opponent to apply a forward pressure to it, in pulses. Use a wall or a pole. Press and then release. Forward energy is a consistent energy, one which we learn to apply with tension and looseness. Playing a lot of Siu Nim Tao can also help develop this energy in another way because having good hand position, supported by your body structure, will help you maintain good forward energy.

Good luck with your Kung Fu...