Jow Ga of Master Kong On BSCLF lineage

[Fu-Pau]

anyways,

i copied this off of Sifu vince lacey's website in regards to how and why Jow Ga got into their lineage......


"Our Connection to Chow Gar

Our Academy's connection to the Chow Gar style is only through Grandmaster Vince Lacey's Si-Gung, Kong On, and his son, Kong Hing, who was Grandmaster Lacey's Sifu. Kong On first studied Chow Gar, then Choy Lay Fut, and finally Buk Siu Lam, Northern Shaolin style kung fu.

Grandmaster Lacey studied Choy Lay Fut kung fu under Kong Hing, and absorbed the Chow Gar style from him. This is the reason we have Chow Gar incorporated into our Academy. It should be noted that all other Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut schools do not include the Chow Gar style in their curriculum."

The above quote implies that they have absorbed the entire style.

Master Kong On was a student of Chow Lung for only a few years. I suspect that all Kong On taught to his CLF students of Chow Gar was a few forms that he created using Chow Gar techniques and principles, in honour of his Sifu Chow Lung. There is no documentary evidence that suggests that any of the forms practiced in BS CLF and called “Chow Gar” or “Jow Ga” forms are anything like the forms practiced in Chow Gar (Jow Ga) itself, other than they are characteristic of Chow Gar.

[Fu-Pau]

The Laceys are at least honest enough to state all their influences and intelligent enough to incorporate them!

Then, given that they acknowledge Chow Lung (founder of Chow Gar) in their lineage, I would expect that they would not use a picture of his brother Chow Biu, and call it Chow Lung, on their website.

[chasincharpchui]

Then, given that they acknowledge Chow Lung (founder of Chow Gar) in their lineage, I would expect that they would not use a picture of his brother Chow Biu, and call it Chow Lung, on their website.

obviously it was a mistake

the jow ga done in the kong on lineage of bsclf came from jow loong

ur jow ga has come from jow biu

juss coz the jow ga in kong on lineage isnt practised in jow biu's lineage, it dont mean that its not jow ga

[Buk&Hung Sing]

Which two videos are you referring to?

The one of Lacey at the tournament, very athletic compared to this video.

[Buk&Hung Sing]

Then, given that they acknowledge Chow Lung (founder of Chow Gar) in their lineage, I would expect that they would not use a picture of his brother Chow Biu, and call it Chow Lung, on their website.

If you look at the lineage, the Jow brothers take over the art after Jow Lung passes away. Then, each brother passes the art to their respectictive students. Dean Chin was also a student of Jow Biu.

[jow yeroc]

Sifu Dean Chin was actually a student/disciple of GM Chan Man Cheung who is a
Jow Biu disciple.

[jow yeroc]

I don't profess to know much about GM Kong On, but his history says
he learned the original jow ga fu pau kuen then developed the 4 or 5 "roads"
or different forms of fu pau kuen. They prolly played the original quite the same
but the "roads" are all different tho adhering to jow ga principles. This is not
meant to be biblically set in stone it's just what i have humbly tried to gather
in relation to Kong On, Jow Ga and this discussion. Any input is welcome.

[Fu-Pau]

the jow ga done in the kong on lineage of bsclf came from jow loong

ur jow ga has come from jow biu

juss coz the jow ga in kong on lineage isnt practised in jow biu's lineage, it dont mean that its not jow ga

Chow Lung and Chow Biu and their brothers did not develop Chow Gar in isolation from each other. Chow Lung was the founder of the style, but his brothers assisted him until his death and then Chow Biu was elected to head the family style. The Chow Lung and Chow Biu lines are not so radically different from one another that an important signature form like Fu Pau Kuen would be so different in one line as to be practically unrecognisable to another.

[Fu-Pau]

The one of Lacey at the tournament, very athletic compared to this video.

I can't get that video to play anymore for some reason(?) But I don't recall them being similar, and I seem to recall that Jason Lacey was performing a CLF form not a Jow Ga form?
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

[Fu-Pau]

If you look at the lineage, the Jow brothers take over the art after Jow Lung passes away. Then, each brother passes the art to their respectictive students. Dean Chin was also a student of Jow Biu.

As jow yeroc pointed out:

Sifu Dean Chin was actually a student/disciple of GM Chan Man Cheung who is a Jow Biu disciple.

Again I am not sure what point you are trying to make, or what the late Master Dean Chin has to do with this discussion?

[Pork Chop]

Buk&Hung Sing had made a comment that Dean Chin was a Jow Biu student, Jow Yeroc was merely correcting him.

I don't think the Singapore line, coming from Lam Chok Poon, traces it's lineage through Jow Biu and everything I've seen from their clips on youtube looks pretty different from the Jow Biu influenced stuff that I've seen over here in the states.

I've seen other buk hsing videos that look a lot like existing Jow Ga forms, like Chai Jong and Siu Hung Kuen; they may just have another name (which I was actually never told).

If they have the seed techniques & understand the principles behind them, does it matter if the forms are different?

[jow yeroc]

Yeah porkchop it does look a little different but i believe they still trace lineage
to Jow Biu. The "father of Singapore Jow ga" was a Lee sifu and i believe
he modified the jow ga. He had learned Foshan Cai Jia(choy ga), fut ga,
and a couple other styles i can't recall and extrapolated the best of all.
Whatever... their stuff looks pretty good. It's all yat ga as far as I'm
concerned. Anyway i got this info from the martialartsgathering.com site
a couple weeks ago. I'll check again to be sure i'm relaying the right info.

peace

[Satori Science]

Here's some Singapore Jow Ga, lots of similarites (obviously) and some difference from the Dean Chin family Jow Ga you see on the east coast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pDc7ocvdv4

[Satori Science]

My understanding of the GM Kong On link between Bak Hsing and Jow Ga was that Kong On had reached a high level of gung fu under his Sifu Jow Lung, that Tam Sam saw him preforming and instantly recognized his talent and invited him to his home for a meeting. Kong On's Sifu had died very early and Tam Sam took him on as a disciple so that he could continue on in his training etc..

It seems a little unnessacary to make distinctions, that "Sifu Carrie Wong's Fu Pow Kuen looks so differnet from another lineage" from what I've seen of the Dean Chin family Jow Ga on the east coast Wong Sifu's form looks very Jow Ga to me. Obviously it will contain other elements as he is also a Master of CLF. Much the way you see Jow Ga elements in some of the Lacey's forms & in Wong Sifu's Kow Da, it seems pretty natural.

My Sifu learned the Bak Sil Lum system from Tam Fei Pang and Chan Woo Lueng in HK and then changed the forms around to suit himself and his flavour. Is some one going to say that he isn't doing "real" Bak Sil Lum, I've compared my forms to my Hing Di's (a Student of Lai Hung) and they look fairly different but all the essential elements & movements of the style are still there.

[Pork Chop]

More of a contribution....
http://www.youtube.com/user/hahagohk
One of the big HK jow ga schools.
All those forms are recognizable to Jow Ga folks in the states, just about every form clip has the major "seeds" I'm familiar with.