TCMA in MMA

[RonH]

Ron, there is no way i'm gonna read through and discuss that mega-post/syllabus you wrote.

You consider that to be a mega-post? Good lord. That's barely anything compared to pretty much most online boards.

Bottom line, if this Taji/Chi/internal junk you say works, why can't it be proven?

It has been for thousands of years. If you close your eyes to the evidence or don't take time to see its effect, you won't ever see it. Not every instance of 'proof' will always be loud, flashy and overly obvious.

Why are NONE of the best(or any for that manner) MMA guys doing it?

You'll have to ask them, but I would suspect that they are unwilling to put in the time and effort to actually work on it. They want it all now, they don't want to wait for it and if it isn't what they were expecting, it must be complete and total crap.

Chi is bs, period.

If a lot of your evidence is based on whether or not someone else does it, like someone in sports fighting circles, that's a grossly inadequate level of proof.

Watch(on Youtube) the Dillman clips from National Geographic and his student 'The Human Stun Gun' make fools of themselves when called out on their bs.

The one on youtube, where, with paramedic equipment hooked up to people, it showed changes in heart rate, which are consistent with getting shocked. They also noted visual signs of sweating and skin changes, also associated with it. The 'hit' he gave the reporter was barely anything and she had a noticable reaction to him touching her, which she calls a lapt tap technique, but still says 'you hit me in the head!'. And even the paramedics didn't how how these changes could be made by someone on their own.

As far as the Jujitsu students, his explanation seems weird. It's more likely that they have a more dulled reaction to it. Just as one's senses can be dulled and they react less noticably to external stimuli. One guy even said he'd been hit in the head a lot. The guy said there there is a limited number of people he can do it on, based on their susceptability, which does explain why those that are longer term internalists are more sensitive to it than others. There is also natural sensitivty factored in, too.

There is also the fact that energy follows the mind. If it is believed to not exist for someone, it doesn't. Dillman also said that changing how the toes and tongue are can neutralize it. This is true, but understanding it requires an understanding of chi, meridians, grounding and such, just as you would need an understanding of electronics to understand why something happened with a device.

Without that information, it'd be like saying 'I'm gonna use the law of gravity to explain how we get energy from food. If I can't explain it with the law of gravity, it must be BS. Anyone that says differently is a fraud.'

[lkfmdc]

RonH = Mordiot

[1bad65]

It has been for thousands of years. If you close your eyes to the evidence or don't take time to see its effect, you won't ever see it.

Nice out there, buddy.

"Not every instance of 'proof' will always be loud, flashy and overly obvious." That's called FAITH, not PROOF.

You'll have to ask them, but I would suspect that they are unwilling to put in the time and effort to actually work on it. They want it all now, they don't want to wait for it and if it isn't what they were expecting, it must be complete and total crap.

Yeah, not taking time to learn skills that will help them earn 6-figure fight purses and 7-figure endorsement deals. Get real.

If a lot of your evidence is based on whether or not someone else does it, like someone in sports fighting circles, that's a grossly inadequate level of proof.

You can prove it, can't you? Oh wait, you already gave your out in the above quote. My bad.



Dillman and that fat 'Human Stun Gun' are real to you? Dude, get some meds, please. Wally Jay could not KO a 125lb SCIENTIST, not a fighter! Notice how Dillman conveniently did not try, he let his stupid lackey fail and look retarded.

So it won't work if the target is a sceptic? And you believe in it!!!! I'll say this, even if you don't believe in a Rear Naked Choke I GUARANTEE I can put you out with it if you let me apply it like the scientist and the reporter gave those Chi fools a 'free shot'.

Also, if it's so real Ron, when will you be picking up your million dollar check? Go to Randi.org and arrange for a test, it should be the easiest million dollars you could ever earn.......

[Becca]

I know you hate the Gracies, but give them props for competing and WINNING.

Don't hate the Gracies. It's not that I don't care for the Gracies; I just don't care about them. The things you say about Lilia Ali are true from your point of view. From mine: aren't some of those wins Royce claims against his on children when they were little?

There's two sides to everything. For you MMA begins with UFC 1. For me, It has no beginning, at least not in recorded history. We will never agree because we aren't even using the same criteria to define the argument.

[Becca]

... controlling thought requires thought, and so is actually not quieting of thought - it's just replacing one type of thought - whatever thoughts you are trying to control and quiet - with another type - the thought of controlling and quieting; and therefore, this is not meditation, which is the "activity" of seeing things such as they are - neither encouraging nor quelling, but rather being aware without judgement of the rising and falling of thought; this is the idea of "stopping and seeing", which is the basis of Ch'an (which means "suchness"); in meditation, all the so-called "messages" your cells are alledgedly sending to your brain are simply more manifestations of thought, to be neither desired nor rejected; coming to a place of true stillness, one sees into ones true nature without the conditioned mind judging what one observes...

This is truely one of the very best explinatons of meditation I've ever read.

[RonH]

Nice out there, buddy.

"Not every instance of 'proof' will always be loud, flashy and overly obvious." That's called FAITH, not PROOF.

Wrong, unfortunately for you. When chemical reactions happen in the human body for normal, everyday functions, they aren't loud, flashy and uberobvious. So, for starters, your basis for 'what is evidence' is already flawed before you look at any subject. And when you 'analyze' this subject, you conclusions are even more flawed because you screwed up at the beginning before you started.

Yeah, not taking time to learn skills that will help them earn 6-figure fight purses and 7-figure endorsement deals. Get real.

And wrong again. They choose to focus on the skills that get them to the quickest place they can be to compete. What I was talking of, which is obvious to everyone (given the topic we are talking about) is a different skill set that takes much longer to learn and requires more effort.

It'd be better for the discussion, if you paid more attention.

You can prove it, can't you? Oh wait, you already gave your out in the above quote. My bad.

You know, you were actually doing so much better than when we talked on the last thread. You provided a counterperspective and limited your use of unintellectually sufficient fallacious logic. What's sad is that you're starting to head back towards it.

I'll say again that not all evidence is always loud, flashy and uberobvious. What you seem to want is a level and specific types of evidence that's often shown in comics. You need to ignore the commercialization of things and focus on what they are, if you truly wish to get anywhere with the topic.

Dillman and that fat 'Human Stun Gun' are real to you? Dude, get some meds, please. Wally Jay could not KO a 125lb SCIENTIST, not a fighter! Notice how Dillman conveniently did not try, he let his stupid lackey fail and look retarded.

You just ignored the part where I said energy follows the mind and the part where there are varying degrees of sensitivity levels.

Again, I want to stress to you that paying attention to what I say brings about a more beneficial discussion for everyone, those involved and readers...even those that can do nothing more now than write in large print, make it bold and come up with childish words that severily abuse the english language.

So it won't work if the target is a sceptic? And you believe in it!!!! I'll say this, even if you don't believe in a Rear Naked Choke I GUARANTEE I can put you out with it if you let me apply it like the scientist and the reporter gave those Chi fools a 'free shot'.

You cannot use the law of gravity to explain how we get energy from ingested food. This is something you should pay attention to and not gloss over or skip, as you have been doing with what I write.

You are comparing apples and oranges, which, if you truly wanted to be scientific about it, would mean that you are doing your experiement and your reasoning contradictory to standard scientific principles.

Also, if it's so real Ron, when will you be picking up your million dollar check? Go to Randi.org and arrange for a test, it should be the easiest million dollars you could ever earn.......

First off, I don't need the million dollars. I'm fine on money. Second my ego doesn't require that I make someone believe me, just so I can get money. Thirdly, I've looked at the site. The methodology is just the same as using the law of gravity to explain how and why we get energy from ingested food. Fourth, since when is randi.org anything special? Why would he be the only one to give credence to such things from a skeptic's point of view.

[1bad65]

Don't hate the Gracies. It's not that I don't care for the Gracies; I just don't care about them. The things you say about Lilia Ali are true from your point of view. From mine: aren't some of those wins Royce claims against his on children when they were little?

There's two sides to everything. For you MMA begins with UFC 1. For me, It has no beginning, at least not in recorded history. We will never agree because we aren't even using the same criteria to define the argument.

We won't agree because you have your FACTS wrong! And you have no idea, without asking me, what my stances on issues are yet you post them!

Laila Ali fights cans, period. She ducks Anne Wolfe, period. And it's not just me, got to ANY boxing board and ask about her. She is a joke, she just has a lucrative boxing career due to her father.
Royce does not claim children as MMA victories. Are you crazy?! His MMA record begins at UFC 1 vs Art Jimmerson. Get real.

MMA does not begin at UFC 1 in MY opinion. Ask me next time, before posting MY opinions. As i posted, Helio Gracie was fighting Vale Tudo in the 1950s. Gene Lebell fought Milo Savage, a boxer, in the 1960s. Both of these were well before UFC 1. And all the 'Gracie Challenge' vids were pre-UFC too.

[1bad65]

So the bottom line Ron is that you can provide NO PROOF, you will take NO TESTS, and you are training NO fighters to take over the MMA world, correct?

Your about as good at avoiding tests and proof as Rudy is at ducking fights. You should be real proud of yourself

[sanjuro_ronin]

Laila Ali fights cans, period. She ducks Anne Wolfe, period. And it's not just me, got to ANY boxing board and ask about her. She is a joke, she just has a lucrative boxing career due to her father.

I have to agree with that, though she did do a number on Erin

The only thing that Ron is "right" about , in my view, is this :

They choose to focus on the skills that get them to the quickest place they can be to compete.

Fighters go for the best available in the shortest amount of time, and rightly so.

The power production of Taiji would not fit into their game plan for various reasons.

[RonH]

Well, I do have to give you points for not allowing yourself to degrade the discussion to the shallow end of the pool.

[1bad65]

I just want proof Ron. I have seen these Chi fools look so deady, ON THEIR OWN STUDENTS! Not once have I ever seen it work on a skeptic.

Like I've never heard the 'I don't need the money' excuse. Take the test, win the money, and then give it away. Give it to a charity, a political party, your family, or me! We all know that the reason you won't take ANY test is the same reason Rudy won't ever fight. You know you will fail, and fail badly, and in a hilarious way.

[cjurakpt]

This is truely one of the very best explinatons of meditation I've ever read.

thank you - but it's not mine - this is basic Ch'an "doctrine"

[cjurakpt]

You can be a genius and know taijiquan. I have a wealth of knowledge and experience when it comes to taijiquan and related fields. So what? Someone has to. Not everyone must be stuck in an eternal 'I only this tiny bit of it' state where their knowledge and experience is confined to a small series of topics.

still waiting to hear from RonH regarding the above claim, and giving him ample opportunity to substantiate it here:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...5&postcount=42

c'mon Ron - no questions about "proving" qi, no interest in debating you about anything - just some very straight forward questions rthat would amply demonstrate your claim of the above...

[Becca]

And you have no idea, without asking me, what my stances on issues are yet you post them!

And you don't? You said I hate the Gracies. I've never said that. I really don’t care what your opinions are any more than you care about mine...

I may have the dates on which MMA organization came before another. I’m pretty certain of my facts as far as Royce at one point claiming several hundred victories, and it came out later that he counted every time he sparred as a victory regardless of who the opponent was. And sometimes that opponent was one of his kids.

[RonH]

I just want proof Ron. I have seen these Chi fools look so deady, ON THEIR OWN STUDENTS! Not once have I ever seen it work on a skeptic.

But, there is so much more to chi than whether you can knock someone down with it. That is why most proof of it isn't flashy, loud and uberobvious.

Like I've never heard the 'I don't need the money' excuse.

You want me to lie about my financial situation? What for? That isn't gonna help anything.

Take the test, win the money, and then give it away. Give it to a charity, a political party, your family, or me!

You? IF I were to give you a million dollars, there better be a very good reason.

We all know that the reason you won't take ANY test is the same reason Rudy won't ever fight. You know you will fail, and fail badly, and in a hilarious way.

Who is Rudy?

If you took the time to expand your knowledge of just what chi involves, you would know why. I have been giving examples this whole time, but you consistently ignore them.