any ideas you'd like to share for fighting a TKD guy

[-N-]

About 8 years ago, a black-belt TKD practitioner came to our Gwoon, and said that he wanted to fight. That is no problem, I said, but he must complete the lesson first.

Hey, somebody post the link to the Chan Pui story about the TKD guy that challenged him

I'm paraphrasing, but...

He told the guy, "Ok, but we have to fight outside. Follow me." Chan Pui jumped out of a 2nd story window and landed on his feet outside of the building. The guy declined to follow him

N.

[B.Tunks]

if a guy does tkd (insert- boxing, karate, wrestling, judo, jiujitsu, wing chun, any, or no art at all) trains hard (except in the case of 'no art at all') and is relatively tough he will kick your ass. especially if his opponent does tlq, doesn't train (or train incorrectly) and is soft.

it's more about the individual rather than the style in my experience.

[-N-]

Hehe... yah, what he said

[mantid1]

I heard another Chan Pui story where he answered a challenge by saying "Ok, I run seven mile and turn around...if you still there I fight you".

[monkeyfoot]

if a guy does tkd (insert- boxing, karate, wrestling, judo, jiujitsu, wing chun, any, or no art at all) trains hard (except in the case of 'no art at all') and is relatively tough he will kick your ass. especially if his opponent does tlq, doesn't train (or train incorrectly) and is soft.

it's more about the individual rather than the style in my experience.

Good points. ''especially if his opponent does tlq''. So do you think the tlq player has more of a disadvantage? Or was this just in regards to whether he trains properly or not?

sorry i didnt really get that line

craig

[mantis108]

Good points. ''especially if his opponent does tlq''. So do you think the tlq player has more of a disadvantage? Or was this just in regards to whether he trains properly or not?

sorry i didnt really get that line

craig

If I may...

Martial arts training of any kind isn't a guarantee. Rather it's an investment in an insurance policy of self preservation. Now of course, most people who are in Kung Fu aren't that interested in self preservation anyway. It's more of an art form for some of them and others look to escape the mundane life through kung Fu. That's fine, to each their own.

I have always said that you can't find anything in Kung Fu that is not found within you. For example, if you are not a fighter, you won't become a fighter even you train Kung Fu with proper standard, which btw is extremely important. Fighter thrives with struggles (ie injuries, defeats, failures, etc) not necessarily glory. There is honesty in a true figther's humility that is acquired through humiliation. If you look around in the Kung Fu community in general today, you don't find that honest humility much. You'd see parade, pageantry, drama and countless fantastical tales. That's the norm for Kung Fu to most people. Kung Fu has truly become what most people preach today - the art of fighting without the fighting. If your Kung Fu can't be used in NHB events, can't be used in Sanshou events, can't be used in Kickboxing event, can't be used in Grappling events, can't be used in point sparring events, etc, what good is this limited skill? How absurd it is to claim that your Kung Fu is versatile in the street when you never faced a resistive opponent? How absurd it is to claim that Kung Fu will only work against opponent of similar size and strength and almost exact skill? How dangerous it is to carry a weapon that you have not tested and expect it to perform under pressure?

Make no mistake, my friends, proper Kung Fu training includes resistive sparring sessions of some kind (fill in the format) as the basic training like every other martial sports not mere drills (although you could say that sparring is a type of drill). The basic training which is the most physical and the hardest is designed to bring out the fighter in you in the most efficient and effective manner. It is by no mean to mold you or shape you into something that you are not. Fighting is the alpha and omega of Kung Fu that let you examin who you really are not someone who you believed that you were. When you can keep that honest humility in you, you will begin to understand the true benefit and value of proper Kung Fu training.

Now, let's start running that 7 miles.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[B.Tunks]

Good points. ''especially if his opponent does tlq''. So do you think the tlq player has more of a disadvantage? Or was this just in regards to whether he trains properly or not?

sorry i didnt really get that line

craig

especially if one thinks tanglang alone will get him over the line. and yes, a distinct disadvantage trying to fight with tlq unless training to fight with it (correctly). a very good way to get arse handed to oneself.

[monkeyfoot]

a very good way to get arse handed to oneself.

lol nicely worded .....I see your point though.

As has been said a thousand times before across this board, too many mantis groups focus on form/drills only. My group I train with are guilty of form collecting (and the lack of principles show quite clearly because of it). So is 'correct training' having regular practice against a resisting opponent?
I noticed that theres a lot of emphasis (yourself and mike martello to name only a few) on the Jiben Gong or the Kung fu Basics. I read somewhere you reworked the basics for like 4 years. Would this be a key element to work on so that 'my arse doesnt get handed to me' in a fight.

I've seriously been contemplating freezing my 'progression through the forms' so-to-speak and to spend like 2-3 years just reworking the basics....what d'you think?

[B.Tunks]

lol nicely worded .....I see your point though.

As has been said a thousand times before across this board, too many mantis groups focus on form/drills only. My group I train with are guilty of form collecting (and the lack of principles show quite clearly because of it). So is 'correct training' having regular practice against a resisting opponent?
I noticed that theres a lot of emphasis (yourself and mike martello to name only a few) on the Jiben Gong or the Kung fu Basics. I read somewhere you reworked the basics for like 4 years. Would this be a key element to work on so that 'my arse doesnt get handed to me' in a fight.

I've seriously been contemplating freezing my 'progression through the forms' so-to-speak and to spend like 2-3 years just reworking the basics....what d'you think?

MF

far be it from me to be telling anyone what they should do to progress (as I have a long way to go myself), but sounds like good thinking- both on the resisting opponent approach and the focus on basics. i could do with more of this kind of training myself.

bt

[monkeyfoot]

mantis108 - Another excellent post that you have graced us with

How absurd it is to claim that Kung Fu will only work against opponent of similar size and strength and almost exact skill? How dangerous it is to carry a weapon that you have not tested and expect it to perform under pressure?

From what I have read/experienced this seems to be a crucial factor in developing this humility you talk about. Its not hard to build an ego, especially when you train in something that ultimately builds confidence (and sometimes a false confidence). Its easy to fall into the trap of thinking that your kung fu can hold its own when you've only trained in controlled situations with partners who comply. If this mindset continues a person can become totally disheartened when the reality hits them and they realise their kung fu didnt work as they thought. This becomes the turning point whereby you either give up or soulsearch and find this new sense of humility. As you said, humility follows humiliation.

But, introduce core basics and resistive sparring at an early period and its likely that the player will never face this 'awakening' (for lack of a better word) and through blood and sweat the whole ego thing should also dissapear.

craig

[mantis108]

mantis108 - Another excellent post that you have graced us with

From what I have read/experienced this seems to be a crucial factor in developing this humility you talk about. Its not hard to build an ego, especially when you train in something that ultimately builds confidence (and sometimes a false confidence). Its easy to fall into the trap of thinking that your kung fu can hold its own when you've only trained in controlled situations with partners who comply. If this mindset continues a person can become totally disheartened when the reality hits them and they realise their kung fu didnt work as they thought. This becomes the turning point whereby you either give up or soulsearch and find this new sense of humility. As you said, humility follows humiliation.

But, introduce core basics and resistive sparring at an early period and its likely that the player will never face this 'awakening' (for lack of a better word) and through blood and sweat the whole ego thing should also dissapear.

craig

Hi Craig,

Thank you for the compliments.

Too often these days, we hear TCMA people, some of them with years of experiences behind them, suddenly "awakening" by BJJ, MMA, NHB, etc. and they turn their back on all things TCMA. That need not be the case if we stay vigilant on making sure that fighting is an integral part of Kung Fu IMHO. It is a case of we offering them a chance to see there are the holes in their game and here's how and why we should fix it this way rather then do as I told you and good luck when you need it.

Warm regards

Robert