Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Yao Sing]

Come on Sean, you know that's all top secret and we have to take his word (and judgment) on it.

[kwaichang]

Read My Lips, or should I say my last line of my last post, Ba qualin want to help me out on this one ? , now lets talk Kung Fu KC

[Litikuai]

I was there and have to say the history GMThe gave was amazing and does reinforce the SD position previously noted. LTK

[Baqualin]

Read My Lips, or should I say my last line of my last post, Ba qualin want to help me out on this one ? , now lets talk Kung Fu KC

You don't need any help.....there is nothing to prove...it is what it is and I'm perfectly content with what SD has done for my life and what I can pass on to others....there's a whole UTUBE world of martial arts out there now and I see nothing that impresses me any more than what I see from the SD students that train and work hard to understand the knowledge GMS hands us
BQ

[Yao Sing]

I just have to say that from an outsider's perspective it looks very much like typical cult talk. That is the face you are portraying to the world. Saying things like "Nothing to prove" does nothing but reflect more of a cult like mentality.

Not bashing or insinuating fake MA, just telling you how it looks from outside your group. Comments like this have been made quite often before by others viewing SD from the outside.

Apparently this doesn't bother any of you yet you insist on wanting to know why people think and say what they do about SD and ask for specifics. Well, this is a specific for you all to ponder, or not since there is "Nothing to prove".

Sometimes it seems you guys are begging to be ridiculed.

[Yao Sing]

Actually I'd like to ask for an explanation although I know there will be none. But why is it that the information is so secret?

[kwaichang]

Hey thanks Yao but again I dont care what people think. I used to but now I dont. Those who do not know what we are doing are judging and that doesnt matter. I will tell you most SD people are so independent they couldnt be in a cult. KC

[bawang]

why does shaolin do have a japanese name do behind it and wear japanese gis? sorry i seriously cannot figure it out. this would be an insult to chinese culture right?! i tried reading through the huge thread but can somebody just condense everything to a paragraph, thanks

[Yao Sing]

SD came from Indonesia where all things Chinese were suppressed. Plus when Sin The first started it in the US Kung Fu was unknown and Karate was the more familiar name the masses would recognize.


How was that?

Also, the "moves like Karate" has been kicked about plenty throughout this thread. The current issue is the secret info they have that would validate everything they claim (true Shaolin, everyone else is watered down/modified) but it can't be revealed to the public.

And no, they are not a cult because they said they aren't.

[brucereiter]

(true Shaolin, everyone else is watered down/modified)

.

my opinion on that is anyone who holds that opinion of shaolin do is fooling themselves.

[Golden Tiger]

Actually I'd like to ask for an explanation although I know there will be none. But why is it that the information is so secret?

I am not exactly sure what information you are refering to that is supposed to be top secret. Just about everything that is known of SD and Master Sin has been told over and over and over again. Most that have trained in the system have heard it and some have decided to take it and him at his word. Others that have only looked in from the outside and watch a few vids have decided not to.

Granted, there are some things that are taught to a select few students after many many years of training and commitment that I nor they would be willing to share but otherwise, everything else is out there. And more than likely, that information could be found elsewhere but those that get it have had to put a heck of a lot of time, sweat, pain and blood into it and are not going to give it out to someone sniffing around on a forum.

This past Liu Hsing seminar was very nice indeed. Master Sin gave the complete background on how it came to be, complete with names in the lineage. Personally, I have neither the time nor the inclination to track them all down to see if there are real or not. Its kind of like my family tree going back 7 generations, I have read the names but thats about it. Its really only the last two that had any bearing on me.

So, if you want any of this secret info, ask me. I have been a student of SD for over 30 years now and there is not much that has happened that I am not aware of. Then again, if you read through the whole thread, I am sure that any question that you can think of has been answered...a couple of times even.

Some one asked me about some Hsing Ie notes a few weeks back, SD is cool I think. I forgot what you wanted. Care to refresh my memory?

[brucereiter]

Some one asked me about some Hsing Ie notes a few weeks back, SD is cool I think. I forgot what you wanted. Care to refresh my memory?

<<i know where you are talking about and that posture would make sense there but is different than i have understood from my instruction...
since we have small variations in choreography maybe you could share some insight into the important principals that should be followed with hsing i that i may be lacking in my expression of hsing i ??? maybe expand on what kc was telling me about 3 body/san ti etc ... thanks.>>

hi gt,

the above is what i was asking about. basically if you could look at these hsing i clips and share some pointers about the way i approach them, not so much the exact choreography but the concepts and principals from your point of view.
beng chuan
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8x6er4aobuc
monkey
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-JuMkgpKJwE
linkage
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dEV39bhIO0I

thank you ...

best,

bruce

[Judge Pen]

And no, they are not a cult because they said they aren't.

As far as why we are not a cult--a cult controls most if not all the aspects of a members life. My teachers have no control over my life outside of the school. They do not tell me what to say or what to think. (I'm sure many opinions I've expressed here are those that most in SD would not agree with.) They do not tell me who to socialize with or how to organize my life, family and career. The only thing they do tell me when I'm ready to advace in material or rank and what my martial strengths and weaknesses are. Everything else is my own. They don't even attempt to excercise any influence or control outside of my training. I'm free to form my own opinions and they train me in the confines of their schools. What's wrong with that?

That's why SD isn't a cult. You want cult, then read "Hearding the Moo". If SD ever told me to rub dog **** on the edges of a broken mirror to avoid bad luck, then I'll agree and call SD a cult.

[Citong Shifu]

I was reading one of SD's websites (Colorado Springs) and found it interesting that SD would claim that master Th'e was honored with a stone tablet that was erected to commemorate his visit to Shaolin Temple, instead of saying, SD or master Th'e was honored by Shaolin Temple (location of temple) and was allowed to erect a stone tablet in respect of his teachers/lineage. Or, something along that line. Know what I mean?

Of course, this isn't the first time I've read this. However, I am curious to hear about who supports ST's claim here in the U.S.; Shi Yanming, Shi Yangao, or any of the U.S. Shaolin Temple kung fu monks. What about the non- temple shaolin masters here in the U.S.. With all the SD media and website press, ST is regarded as the father of shaolin kung fu mastering 900 forms from over 100 kung fu fighting styles.

I'm sorry, I just cant buy into all these claims. I'm not saying that ST doesnt have an extensive background in the martial arts or that he didnt train in some shaolin kung fu at one time or another. Just, the SD claims just doesn't add up.

I've seen many of the SD youtube clips which weren't bad, but I didnt see a whole lot of shaolin kung fu, some but not alot.

Shaolin kung fu is becoming very popular in the U.S. as well as shaolin wushu and the ohter chinese styles, sooner than later SD will have to answer the questions being asked and provide a more clear cut lineage to support its claims.

What I would like is to see some footage of ST performing his shaolin do or shaolin kung fu, when he was young (20's/30's) and current day! Is there any footage available of ST in action, as well as his self-defense or sparring? That would really be a great resource for this thread. Anywho, if you guys could provide some fooage of your teacher doing some real shaolin movement, not walk through seminar stuff, I think alot of these conversation would cease. Then again, who knows....

[Judge Pen]

I was reading one of SD's websites (Colorado Springs) and found it interesting that SD would claim that master Th'e was honored with a stone tablet that was erected to commemorate his visit to Shaolin Temple, instead of saying, SD or master Th'e was honored by Shaolin Temple (location of temple) and was allowed to erect a stone tablet in respect of his teachers/lineage. Or, something along that line. Know what I mean?

Of course, this isn't the first time I've read this. However, I am curious to hear about who supports ST's claim here in the U.S.; Shi Yanming, Shi Yangao, or any of the U.S. Shaolin Temple kung fu monks. What about the non- temple shaolin masters here in the U.S.. With all the SD media and website press, ST is regarded as the father of shaolin kung fu mastering 900 forms from over 100 kung fu fighting styles.

I'm sorry, I just cant buy into all these claims. I'm not saying that ST doesnt have an extensive background in the martial arts or that he didnt train in some shaolin kung fu at one time or another. Just, the SD claims just doesn't add up.

I've seen many of the SD youtube clips which weren't bad, but I didnt see a whole lot of shaolin kung fu, some but not alot.

Shaolin kung fu is becoming very popular in the U.S. as well as shaolin wushu and the ohter chinese styles, sooner than later SD will have to answer the questions being asked and provide a more clear cut lineage to support its claims.

What I would like is to see some footage of ST performing his shaolin do or shaolin kung fu, when he was young (20's/30's) and current day! Is there any footage available of ST in action, as well as his self-defense or sparring? That would really be a great resource for this thread. Anywho, if you guys could provide some fooage of your teacher doing some real shaolin movement, not walk through seminar stuff, I think alot of these conversation would cease. Then again, who knows....

I'd love to see that footage too! I know this: at his age 64, I'm very impressed when he teaches a seminar at what he is still able to physically do. He's slowed down a bit, but his stances are way lower and stronger than mine and his stamina is unreal for his age. I'd love to see him move in his prime.

I respect your perspective, but like I've said, I don't think that our lineage will not be more defined then it is already. I think things got "mixed and matched" a bunch in the school in Indonesia and it has made SD what it is today. It is certianly distinct from what is identified as shaolin today, but that's not to say that the material didn't have some line back to what we define as a set of temples under the shaolin "banner" including many martial temples that are usually associated with henan or even fukien.

As far as what it reported in each individual website, then that's on that owner in not be clearer when they descirbie certain things.