An Epic of Internet-challenge Stupidity

[FatherDog]

Hmm, can't find fault with my argument, so you call me a moron?

Asia, an active duty military man who is heavily involved with teaching military combatives training told you something about how they train, how they emphasize BJJ, and how that strategy worked in the field, and your response was the equivalent of "Nuh-uh."

If you can't find the fault with that on your own, us pointing it out is unlikely to be effective, so it's easier to just call you a moron, since that is in fact the case.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I am having a hard time believing the actually Emphasis BJJ and it's tactics.

He sites like2-3 examples, out of an entire sea of combat over there.

Like I said before, I know some BJJ is taught, but an emphasis? I doubt that.

I would have to look further into that and see it being true from a number of sources before I buy it.

I have a hard time buying anything when all I have is a single source.

[1bad65]

If RD felt the world was flat, no amount of evidence would convince him otherwise.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

No, I just like multiple info sources to be in agreement. Right now I have several, but they don't seem to agree.

My opinion will be dictated by the info as I digest it. Right now, other than Asia every source I see seems to show BJJ is not a predominant force in the USMC, AND Asia himself only sited a few examples without really going into detail. He may very well have sited examples where the soldiers just got lucky and survived, who knows.

I am never happy with what I see on the surface. Life has taught me what is underneath is often the opposite of what shows at the top.

[1bad65]

So Osiris, Anthony, and any soldier using BJJ got lucky then? It appears KF guys never 'get lucky' or win with skill either.

I guess Occam's Razor is a foreign concept to you. I guess anyone stupid enough to get drawn into a MA cult can't be expected be a rational, intelligent individual.

[Asia]

I am having a hard time believing the actually Emphasis BJJ and it's tactics.

He sites like2-3 examples, out of an entire sea of combat over there.

I site 3 that dealt with the technique you brought up. And FYI CQB does happen but its a small fraction to the number of firefights that happen.

Like I said before, I know some BJJ is taught, but an emphasis? I doubt that.

Ofcourse don't let my first hand experience throw you off.
FYI the first two levels of the program is BJJ 101. This can be clearly seen in the FM. And BJJ is not only ground grappling. I know this might surprise some but there is a lot of self defense in it too. Pick up Helio's book, which is actually pretty good despite the hight price, or get Royler and Renzo's book which the FM practially mirros. Better yet I highly recommend Greg Thompson's book it shows what we do very well. Greg is certified Level 3 and spends alot of time with the guys at Bragg.

I would have to look further into that and see it being true from a number of sources before I buy it.

Sure don't let a guy that does it for a living and has actually been to combat, teaches others the same thing and have actually seen it done. Getting things straight from the horses mouth is overrated, isn't it.

I have a hard time buying anything when all I have is a single source.

Hell I can get you in touch with many sources even Matt Larsen, SFC retired/RANGER and father of MACP. You have Tim Kennedy, Special Forces + Professinal MMA fighter. Jeff Yurk, is a lucky SOB and getts anything he wants to run his program, even TDY for Mundials.....but I'm not bitter. All are "been there and done that" guys and I will be seeing them next week at the All Army Combatives event. What would you like me to have them tell you?

[Asia]

No, I just like multiple info sources to be in agreement. Right now I have several, but they don't seem to agree.

My opinion will be dictated by the info as I digest it. Right now, other than Asia every source I see seems to show BJJ is not a predominant force in the USMC, AND Asia himself only sited a few examples without really going into detail. He may very well have sited examples where the soldiers just got lucky and survived, who knows.

I am never happy with what I see on the surface. Life has taught me what is underneath is often the opposite of what shows at the top.

BJJ not being a predominant force in the USMC!?!?!?!

Uh WRONG!!!

http://onthemat.com/articles/RESULTS...3_30_2006.html

This is an event put on by SoCal Pankration. Its a really nice one. Marines bring more pple than any other branch. They ALL do BJJ. EVER LAST ONE OF THEM. The Marines seen teams to compete in BJJ tournaments.

I've trained MCMAP with the Marines stationed here with me and low and behold they start out with basic BJJ.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

OK. I guess I was wrong then.

[SanHeChuan]

Marines Training BJJ on their own and THE MARINE CORPS training Marines in BJJ are two different things. I just got out of the Marine Corps this year, and right now the MCMAProgram is not BJJ heavy. Although BJJ/westling is done from time to time for fun it is not a big part of the official curriculum.

It just so happens that the Marine Corps tends to draw on the same personalities as BJJ/MMA, so your bound to get crossover.

I've trained MCMAP with the Marines stationed here with me and low and behold they start out with basic BJJ.

I was never taught any BJJ in the Marine Corps. I would not call the basic level stuff BJJ. It may share some similarities to standing BJJ self defense, I'll take your word on that, but it is also just like the standing self defense of just about every other martial art I've done. Nothing I was taught in MCMAP was anything like the BJJ I learned from Clay Pittman.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Marines Training BJJ on their own and THE MARINE CORPS training Marines in BJJ are two different things. I just got out of the Marine Corps this year, and right now the MCMAProgram is not BJJ heavy. Although BJJ/westling is done from time to time for fun it is not a big part of the official curriculum.

It just so happens that the Marine Corps tends to draw on the same personalities as BJJ/MMA, so your bound to get crossover.

Reply]
Well, this is pretty much what I have seen and heard from anyone I have ever spoken to about this...except Asia.

[Phrost]

Well, this is pretty much what I have seen and heard from anyone I have ever spoken to about this...except Asia.

Who happens to be in a completely separate (and significantly larger) branch of the military.

But hey, what does a battalion-level NCO and one of the top U.S. Army combatives instructors know about how the army fights, eh?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

So is Asia Army, or USMC?

If he is Army, then it really does not matter what he says, my discussion is what the USMC is doing.

[Asia]

Marines Training BJJ on their own and THE MARINE CORPS training Marines in BJJ are two different things. I just got out of the Marine Corps this year, and right now the MCMAProgram is not BJJ heavy. Although BJJ/westling is done from time to time for fun it is not a big part of the official curriculum.[]

It just so happens that the Marine Corps tends to draw on the same personalities as BJJ/MMA, so your bound to get crossover.



I was never taught any BJJ in the Marine Corps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxwibX9ZRMM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNC0cSqY8k0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHzVVKL_0FM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYl8QsR49cg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx4r9JfaoCk

BJJ is definitely part of MCMAP. They were using the same guard to scissor sweep setup we do in MACP. And the same Armbar drills, used the same positional hierarchy as well. All of which came from BJJ.


Here is the MACP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCyzrVx2ahw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDrlD9SpE2k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUIHUNgzxMs
Note I didn't say BJJ was the only thing done but it is does play a big part in both systems as the videos show.

[Asia]

So is Asia Army, or USMC?

I'm Army but if you don't want to take my word for it I know many of the guys on the link I posted. They will tell you the same thing I am.

If he is Army, then it really does not matter what he says, my discussion is what the USMC is doing.

WRONG. I am stationed with Marines, as well a Navy and Air Force. This is a training center were all branches, even foreign forces come to train. I still have way more insight in this than you do.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Is it a big part, or a small part. That is the question.