Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Flaca]

I think you need to review with Master Joe if that is how you were taught the form it is different than how I was taught it the differences are there but subtle body turns extra moves the opening sequence is counter clock wise and proceeds above the head slightly etc. KC

I don't do the form the same manner as Grooms does it, my body moves very differently; however, I wouldn't say the movements themselves were different moves, if you see what I mean. My movements are slower and more rigid; not that I will ever look like Eric Y, but that's what I shoot for. Feel free to come down here and correct me.

BTW, what on earth are we all doing here on Saturday night???

[kwaichang]

You should know have fun, and sorry I did not imply you did the form like MG
KC

[brucereiter]

also bruce just to note gmt does taping of new forms just once (usually in lexington) and then that video is what is given out to the different schools he visits.

so in theory the video smg has is the same as eml or the em's here in denver and so on

that is not always the case. many times as gmt teachs smg new material at smg's home or at the school gmt/smg will video it for smg reference.

[Golden Tiger]

i would respectfully say, your use of the word "correct" implies that the other is incorrect i think that is not the case:

Point taken. Perhaps I should have choosen " the version that was first taught out circa 93 when Master Sin introduced the form to the "Sunday Rank Advancement" class which at the time, contained 98% of all the upper level students. Granted, M. Grooms was not taking this class so that might account for the differences in some of the movements in the way he learned it.

I would also like to make it clear that I rarely make the "this it right, that is wrong " distinction. I have been around long enough to know that the forms are far from static when taught out and for those that get really hung up on that are missing the essence of the forms in the first place. I merely point out the differences from the perspective of learning them first hand, over many classes (as opposed to the seminar/cram sessions/videos) from Master Sin, the first time they were taught out.

[kungfujunky]

that is not always the case. many times as gmt teachs smg new material at smg's home or at the school gmt/smg will video it for smg reference.

ok so that could be where the differences are coming from.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Shaolin Wookie, it is disingenuous to claim that Sin The' does not claim to be THE Shaolin grandmaster. Your entire system, claims to fame and belief system is built on this, and tearing down the actual Shaolin temple by claiming they are all 'modern wushu.'

It's sad really, that when you cannot accept truth, you attempt spin.

Um, is it disingenuous? Would it be disingenuous to say the war in Iraq is unjust, and has left both Iraq and the U.S. in worse situations than they were originally in when Sadaam was alive and in power? Is it disingenuous to say I would like to see President Bush in a cage match with Chuck Liddel, no rules? Or behind bars? LOL, I don't have to believe everything Pres. Bush says, or believe it represents my POV, or anyone else's for that matter.

I don't have to agree with GM The' or JAmes Halladay or any of the PR guys for Shaolin-Do.

Here's the problem with some of you guys: you either want us to be A) a die-hard devotee that believes everything hands-down (like KC) or B) Mas Judt--a die-hard naysayer that believes nothing SD says is of any value, and is all deceit.

There is a middle path (LOL), where you take the information you're given, weigh it against other information available, take as tenable that information which is corroborated, and call bull**** on the rest.

I prefer the middle road.

It's why some SD guys think I'm disrespectful, and some of you guys (MK) think I'm wishy-washy.

But for those of you who comfortably sit back and judge SD like Mas Judt (that is, speaking with no experience), you'll have to forgive me when I say your words are like f@rts in the wind, such as you are speaking with no experience and no knowledge of it, only what gets recycled in PR. You are in fact the longarms of the propaganda, and its tools. Or maybe just Tools in general.....wink.....wink.....

[Mas Judt]

Be careful when you assume, Shaolin Wookie....

But I guess I really can't expect more. The fundamental issue is veracity, and the lack of it has been demonstrated by SD plenty of times on this forum.

[Citong Shifu]

see thats the problem lol

is it a 5 animal set? do you have any clips of even just a little bit of it done by you or a student of yours?

No, its not a 5 animal form. Shaolin long arm boxing set. Let me see what I can download.

Thanks.
CS

[brucereiter]

I would also like to make it clear that I rarely make the "this it right, that is wrong " distinction. I have been around long enough to know that the forms are far from static when taught out and for those that get really hung up on that are missing the essence of the forms in the first place. I merely point out the differences from the perspective of learning them first hand, over many classes (as opposed to the seminar/cram sessions/videos) from Master Sin, the first time they were taught out.

smg told me a story about gmt and his brother master hiang having a disagreement about a hand position in a form (i.e. one said it was a fist the other said it was a open palm)
they contacted ggm ie and from what i understand the brothers we admonished for the disagreement they had as a waste of time saying both were "correct" it depends on what you are going to do with it as to which one you chose ...
(i am retelling a story so i may have confused facts ... :-) )

this leads me to a few questions:

-should students do the form the exact same way as their teacher?

-at what point in ones training can you make a decision to perform or apply a form with your own understanding vs. trying to have your teachers understanding?

-should the forms in our system be dynamic so they can adapt to different people with different skiil set/needs/attributes ...

or

-should the forms in our system be done exactly as they are taught to preserve them as they were many years ago? like a library.

[BoulderDawg]

I didn't even know until the other day That GM Sin had a brother(Haing Kwang The) and he calls himself a GM and has a school in Kentucky.

Why don't the brothers acknowledge each other?

Also, on Haing The's web site it mentions that Master Ie died in 1968. If this is correct then Sin was taught be a dead man for 8 years.

Haing also mentions that Ie was his Grandfather. Information I haven't seen from MG Sin.

http://www.centralshaolin.com/cshaol.../history2.html

********

In any case the worst thing here is that there appears to have been some sort of rift between the brothers.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I didn't even know until the other day That GM Sin had a brother(Haing Kwang The) and he calls himself a GM and has a school in Kentucky.

Why don't the brothers acknowledge each other?

Also, on Haing The's web site it mentions that Master Ie died in 1968. If this is correct then Sin was taught be a dead man for 8 years.

Haing also mentions that Ie was his Grandfather. Information I haven't seen from MG Sin.

http://www.centralshaolin.com/cshaol.../history2.html

********

In any case the worst thing here is that there appears to have been some sort of rift between the brothers.

It concerns the passing on of the grandmaster-title, the revelation that GM Ie had died (when it was learned, told by whom, to whom), GM Hiang deciding to take some of GM The's students and starting his own school due to different teaching methodologies and ethics, and other things. I heard several versions of it--it's a squabble that doesn't belong here on this forum, isn't even that big of a deal, and has, apparently, been somewhat settled. It's been rehashed on this thread numerous times, always with some emotions for those involved.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Does anyone know a good resource for Omei Crane? Vids? Books?

Many sources cite Emei Shan as a center for crane studies, and our three brown belt crane forms come from the Omei crane......but I can't find any other tangible sources for Emei crane outside of our information. All those outside sources don't point to anything tangible. It's wierd.

[kungfujunky]

Does anyone know a good resource for Omei Crane? Vids? Books?

Many sources cite Emei Shan as a center for crane studies, and our three brown belt crane forms come from the Omei crane......but I can't find any other tangible sources for Emei crane outside of our information. All those outside sources don't point to anything tangible. It's wierd.

if you check hsiangs site you see he has taught all 18 forms of the crane system. might be worth investigating to see if any of the other forms he taught out resemble any other systems cranes.

of course that would require help from a hiang student...........

[BoulderDawg]

I heard several versions of it--it's a squabble that doesn't belong here on this forum, isn't even that big of a deal, and has, apparently, been somewhat settled. It's been rehashed on this thread numerous times, always with some emotions for those involved.

I think it very much belongs on this thread. It provides insight to the lineage and gives us a bit of history of the movement.

As far as being rehashed on this thread:

There are many posts here going back for a long period of time. Many people on this board haven't been here that long. Also, many of us don't keep up with the thread every day. You have thousands of posts here. Of course material is going to be rehashed.

Finally "Those involved"? Who involved would read this other than the The brothers?

[kungfujunky]

didnt you quit bdawg?

you said you were going to.....

and the the brothers squabble was silly and is over. they've agreed to disagree and ignore the other.

end of story. its not our business....just like its not our business if you got in a fight with your family.

has nothing to do with kung fu