Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Baqualin]

It's kind of along these lines:

There are a lot of guys on this internet forum who love to look down their noses at other martial artists as the say-all of MA knowledge. And they would like us, standing below them, to thank them for the panoramic view of their nasal cavities.

The funny thing is, whenever anyone looks down their nose, the only thing they can ever see is its tip. Which ought to tell them--but rarely does--how short they ought to stand in their own estimation while deriding those they see as below them.

I'm just here to level the playing field....LOL....and to bring it back to the level where it belongs--the playground.

Achoo! God, I hope I wasn't just looking down on somebody, or he's in for a surprise.

Wookie, Thanks for your sense of humor...I'm still laughing

[oasis]

i think you're referring to Ron "The Black Dragon" Van Clief

[BM2]

It wasn't worth watching either. Royce was tapping everyone until they learned to defend themselves on the ground.

[kwaichang]

Hey at least he was man enough to try age nor fear stood in his way KC

[Mas Judt]

Well, I'm busy for a day, and the last refuge of the incompetent comes a walking.

Honestly, KC, Wookie, some initial guy, I will not be drawn into juvenile discussion. It's pointless. And frankly, it is meaningless coming from this crowd - for reasons cited over and over again on this thread.

While dodging actually confronting the history of lies, and the fact that the reason your art is 'different' has nothing to do with it 'being for combat' - you try to draw me into a PeeWee Hermann-esque game of 'I know you are, but what am I?'

So explain to me, if your art is the pure, original, combat form, do you practice sam chien the same way as Karate guys - which is a gross misinterpretation of the original? Why does your North Mantis not move like North Mantis? and on and on... For that matter, why do you willingly be part of an organization that aggressively chooses to lie. i.e. 'only Shaolin grandmaster / Lieing about what the Stelle at Shaolin was for / Lieing about how 'real martial arts' are lost in China... A few of these can be a misunderstanding. After that you have to ask yourself what kind of person you are.

[Mas Judt]

Isn't this just a watered down way of saying that some techniques are too deadly for the ring? (like producing a spike from your boot)

JP - I am fairly certain that Matt Hughes would hand me my head in the ring. But the street really is a different matter. Most MMA guys know little to nothing about self-defense.

But the Sport/Self-Defense/Combat debate is an old one. The same debates people have today about martial arts were already made in the 17nth century as fencing transformed from self-defense to sport. There's a great book called 'the secrets of the sword.' Pick it up and enjoy it - there really are no new arguments under the sun.

[BM2]

Dude, did I misconstrue your statement? Are you saying you could go one on one with Matt Hughes on the street?

[tattooedmonk]

Well, I'm busy for a day, and the last refuge of the incompetent comes a walking.

Honestly, KC, Wookie, some initial guy, I will not be drawn into juvenile discussion. It's pointless. And frankly, it is meaningless coming from this crowd - for reasons cited over and over again on this thread.

While dodging actually confronting the history of lies, and the fact that the reason your art is 'different' has nothing to do with it 'being for combat' - you try to draw me into a PeeWee Hermann-esque game of 'I know you are, but what am I?'

So explain to me, if your art is the pure, original, combat form, do you practice sam chien the same way as Karate guys - which is a gross misinterpretation of the original? Why does your North Mantis not move like North Mantis? and on and on... For that matter, why do you willingly be part of an organization that aggressively chooses to lie. i.e. 'only Shaolin grandmaster / Lieing about what the Stelle at Shaolin was for / Lieing about how 'real martial arts' are lost in China... A few of these can be a misunderstanding. After that you have to ask yourself what kind of person you are.

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that the way you all do CMA is the right way and the way that CSC and SD do it are wrong ??

Did you ever think that maybe you are wrong and that it might be some place in the middle??

Or that SD does it the right way , for combat usage? Just a question.

[Shaolin Wookie]

So explain to me, if your art is the pure, original, combat form, do you practice sam chien the same way as Karate guys - which is a gross misinterpretation of the original?

No. We don't do it like karate guys. It looks different. There's a I-Chin-Ching breathing component to it. Now I'm not positive, and you'll have to take my word for it, but I'm pretty sure we do the form exactly like we're supposed to do it in our art....LOL.... What karate guys do is what they do. What we do is what we do. Man, you're a blockhead. Here's the gist of our San He Chien:

Take a stance that's a cross between a bow stance and a horse stance, set your weight low in a stable, very low stance with feet parallel, but staggered. Now, focus on your breathing, tensing every muscle in your body as you go through 3 patterns of hand movements 3 times, resetting your stance in between each one. Keep your back straight, don't force any motions in your body. Now prepare to be pushed, kicked, swept, and punched, and don't react, halt in breathing, or flinch. Also, make it last 3-5 minutes. It's a killer workout, great for breathing, great for stance, great for killing flinch complexes and keeping your balance.

Works for me. So it's genuine for me.

Why does your North Mantis not move like North Mantis? and on and on...

Who gives a ****? It's mantis. You do it or you don't do it. You "You've got to do it just like this in this pattern, with this kind of motion" guys kill me. ****, if you punch or kick, poke around, and say you use a jade ring or a hook stance, it's mantis to me. Who gives a **** if it's northern or southern? Can I punch fast and on target? Yup. But oh, that's right, if I punch you in the SD way it doesn't hurt as much as if I hit someone in a northerly direction?

For that matter, why do you willingly be part of an organization that aggressively chooses to lie. i.e.

Because they're the only MA organization that teaches drunken boxing, which isn't that wushu BS--more like a dance routine. They didn't lie. They said they'd teach me drunken boxing, and if I work hard enough, they will. I already have a little bit of it.

'only Shaolin grandmaster /

Watch out, if you keep repeating that you'll believe it sooner or later. Here, try this. It'll cool your throat. What is it? It's Kool Aid, my man. I've seen you rehash this one so many times I figure you've been drinking your own urine for too long and are starting to get brain damage.

Lieing about what the Stelle at Shaolin was for

It was there to honor GM The', purchased by students. An Abbot came down to see it. He didn't donate it. But hell, there's a picture of the ol' geeza next to the stele, and it's sitting next to his rec room. If the old geeza didn't have a problem with it, what's your beef? I'm beginning to think you think you're the Shaolin Grandmaster.

/ Lieing about how 'real martial arts' are lost in China...

You haven't seen wushu, have you? Oh, it's lost. I tried it once, and one of my friends has done it 6 years. He can't hang with me for 15 seconds, and he has 3X my experience....LOL. Sometimes I think it's SD's greatest attribute that it isn't typical CMA. At least hte guys I practice with can fight/box...whatever.

A few of these can be a misunderstanding. After that you have to ask yourself what kind of person you are.

I mean, seriously. If I can throw a roundhouse, a straight punch, a jab, a snap kick, a heel kick.....jesus, if I can land those in good combinations, who cares if it's Northern Mantis? Either you can hit someone or you can't. So if all you have to say is: When you pretend like you're a Northern Mantis you don't look buggy enough---sheeyat, man. Go get mantiddy witcha self.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Hi guys,

Been awhile. But i'm back. I'm happy to anounce that my master wanted some videos on youtube, more are still to come. But this one shows how kung fu looks like no karate movements or fancy high kicks.(sorry that the video is on his side, still figuring that part out)
This is my teacher and he was taught at bandung.
Please tell me what you think!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABj78...eature=related

O and another one with a student showing a piece of our long form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfohs...eature=related

Since this seemed to get completely ignored again, I'm reposting it, again. Besides the fact we throw side thrusts, punch, and kick, and that circling of the arm things, it looks a little different (which is to say, it looks the pretty much the same...like all CMA). Then again, I don't have any Monkey Style yet. They're teaching it in '08.....sweet.

[Citong Shifu]

No. We don't do it like karate guys. It looks different. There's a I-Chin-Ching breathing component to it. Now I'm not positive, and you'll have to take my word for it, but I'm pretty sure we do the form exactly like we're supposed to do it in our art....LOL.... What karate guys do is what they do. What we do is what we do. Man, you're a blockhead. Here's the gist of our San He Chien:

Take a stance that's a cross between a bow stance and a horse stance, set your weight low in a stable, very low stance with feet parallel, but staggered. Now, focus on your breathing, tensing every muscle in your body as you go through 3 patterns of hand movements 3 times, resetting your stance in between each one. Keep your back straight, don't force any motions in your body. Now prepare to be pushed, kicked, swept, and punched, and don't react, halt in breathing, or flinch. Also, make it last 3-5 minutes. It's a killer workout, great for breathing, great for stance, great for killing flinch complexes and keeping your balance.

Works for me. So it's genuine for me.



Who gives a ****? It's mantis. You do it or you don't do it. You "You've got to do it just like this in this pattern, with this kind of motion" guys kill me. ****, if you punch or kick, poke around, and say you use a jade ring or a hook stance, it's mantis to me. Who gives a **** if it's northern or southern? Can I punch fast and on target? Yup. But oh, that's right, if I punch you in the SD way it doesn't hurt as much as if I hit someone in a northerly direction?



Because they're the only MA organization that teaches drunken boxing, which isn't that wushu BS--more like a dance routine. They didn't lie. They said they'd teach me drunken boxing, and if I work hard enough, they will. I already have a little bit of it.



Watch out, if you keep repeating that you'll believe it sooner or later. Here, try this. It'll cool your throat. What is it? It's Kool Aid, my man. I've seen you rehash this one so many times I figure you've been drinking your own urine for too long and are starting to get brain damage.



It was there to honor GM The', purchased by students. An Abbot came down to see it. He didn't donate it. But hell, there's a picture of the ol' geeza next to the stele, and it's sitting next to his rec room. If the old geeza didn't have a problem with it, what's your beef? I'm beginning to think you think you're the Shaolin Grandmaster.



You haven't seen wushu, have you? Oh, it's lost. I tried it once, and one of my friends has done it 6 years. He can't hang with me for 15 seconds, and he has 3X my experience....LOL. Sometimes I think it's SD's greatest attribute that it isn't typical CMA. At least hte guys I practice with can fight/box...whatever.



I mean, seriously. If I can throw a roundhouse, a straight punch, a jab, a snap kick, a heel kick.....jesus, if I can land those in good combinations, who cares if it's Northern Mantis? Either you can hit someone or you can't. So if all you have to say is: When you pretend like you're a Northern Mantis you don't look buggy enough---sheeyat, man. Go get mantiddy witcha self.

Our organization refers to this set as San Zan (triple stance / triple battle). I have seen the Sam Chien set and it looks almost identical to my friends San Chin set from Isshinryu karate. I've also seen the Goju set, which looks almost the same..

I dont really care one way or another, but the exact similarities are defining. A while back I was talking to my Sifu about the SD curriculum. I showed him a copy I printed from one of the SD websites that mentioned the bird forms etc,. He looked at the curriculum and acknowledged he was familar with these sets. However, he stated that the bird forms and a few others (which I forgot there names) were created at the Fukien Shaolin Temple explicitedly for the Okinawan karate masters that traveled to Fukien Shaolin to learn kung fu. Historically, this can be backed by documentation of the sets the Okinawan masters learned, which most Traditional Shuri 'Te karate systems have so documented...

Anyway, I have seen some of the SD curriculm that incorporates other Chinese classical kung fu sets.

I bring this up to give some of you guys something to think about, not to start sh!t! I have several emails out to Traditional Okinawan Shuri 'Te schools that are familiar with the Fukien "Bird" forms / sets. Hopefully, I will get some interesting replies and more documentation on this matter...

Just a thought.
CS

[Baqualin]

Our organization refers to this set as San Zan (triple stance / triple battle). I have seen the Sam Chien set and it looks almost identical to my friends San Chin set from Isshinryu karate. I've also seen the Goju set, which looks almost the same..

I dont really care one way or another, but the exact similarities are defining. A while back I was talking to my Sifu about the SD curriculum. I showed him a copy I printed from one of the SD websites that mentioned the bird forms etc,. He looked at the curriculum and acknowledged he was familar with these sets. However, he stated that the bird forms and a few others (which I forgot there names) were created at the Fukien Shaolin Temple explicitedly for the Okinawan karate masters that traveled to Fukien Shaolin to learn kung fu. Historically, this can be backed by documentation of the sets the Okinawan masters learned, which most Traditional Shuri 'Te karate systems have so documented...

Anyway, I have seen some of the SD curriculm that incorporates other Chinese classical kung fu sets.

I bring this up to give some of you guys something to think about, not to start sh!t! I have several emails out to Traditional Okinawan Shuri 'Te schools that are familiar with the Fukien "Bird" forms / sets. Hopefully, I will get some interesting replies and more documentation on this matter...

Just a thought.
CS

Cool, Thanks CS....very interesting...looking foward to more. Merry XMAS!!!
BQ

[Mas Judt]

Dude, did I misconstrue your statement? Are you saying you could go one on one with Matt Hughes on the street?

Nope, you got it correct. But you probably are not understanding the contextual meaning.

[Mas Judt]

I showed him a copy I printed from one of the SD websites that mentioned the bird forms etc,. He looked at the curriculum and acknowledged he was familar with these sets. However, he stated that the bird forms and a few others (which I forgot there names) were created at the Fukien Shaolin Temple explicitedly for the Okinawan karate masters that traveled to Fukien Shaolin to learn kung fu. Historically, this can be backed by documentation of the sets the Okinawan masters learned, which most Traditional Shuri 'Te karate systems have so documented...

Anyway, I have seen some of the SD curriculm that incorporates other Chinese classical kung fu sets.

I bring this up to give some of you guys something to think about, not to start sh!t! I have several emails out to Traditional Okinawan Shuri 'Te schools that are familiar with the Fukien "Bird" forms / sets. Hopefully, I will get some interesting replies and more documentation on this matter...

I'd be curious too. If you could show a link like this, it would be very interesting.

[Judge Pen]

A while back I was talking to my Sifu about the SD curriculum. I showed him a copy I printed from one of the SD websites that mentioned the bird forms etc,. He looked at the curriculum and acknowledged he was familar with these sets. However, he stated that the bird forms and a few others (which I forgot there names) were created at the Fukien Shaolin Temple explicitedly for the Okinawan karate masters that traveled to Fukien Shaolin to learn kung fu. Historically, this can be backed by documentation of the sets the Okinawan masters learned, which most Traditional Shuri 'Te karate systems have so documented...

Interesting stuff. This is the first reference I've heard of regarding the bird forms outside of SD. Please let me know what else you find.