CLF or Bullshido?

[hskwarrior]

Eddie, thanks for seeing at least for moment seeing it as i do.

I agree, a form that has been blessed, or even created by the heads of all three lineages to form a so called "Standardized" forms would be a good thing. especially for tournaments.

In my opinion, all three branches has different flavors, emphasis, and such......so one form displaying all three essences would be off the hook.

See, i believe, but could be wrong.........all three lineages have Ping Kuen, Kau Da, and Sup Ji.........ping kuen for sure.

These are the forms i was mainly focusing on.

[CLFNole]

I think the idea of a standardized type of form is nice but it definately would have to get the blessing and influence from senior sifus from each line, which in my opinion would eventually lead to some problems due to egos, etc... but in theory it could work. I personally don't see the need for it but I agree it could work. The truth is that we all have the same seeds. So what if combos or theories are different, at the end of the day it is all CLF and that is the beauty of it, each side is individual to some degree and that is what makes each side special. Throw out the number of sets one brance might have over another becuase that really is meaningless, the essence of CLF is what is important and promoting that is what matters.

Ultimately though the unity of the CLF family will not be accomplished through the creation of a set or sets. Unith will start when the fighting and arguing stops and everyone accepts each other for what they are. History will never be agreed upon so that would have to be left out of the equation (a sticking point IMHO) or at least accepted by every side that different versions exist. IF everyone could look forward for CLF instead of always looking back Unity might be a reachable goal but until that happens it will just be another year of the same old same old.

[hskwarrior]

yeah, we have the same seeds, but each branch has its own contributions that the others may not have.......

still, a form is just a form.........its just one little aspect of martial arts........so it shouldn't become a big deal.......it's when the ego's kick in is when we all have issues.

the way i see it, chan family would be responsible for acknowledging and dealing with their own material, hung sing will do the same and so will buk sing...... so instead of having three to 4 different ping kuens........in a standardized manner, i feel it would be better to have one standardized and universally accepted version of the main staple forms. Now, to be clear, a chan family member wouldn't have a voice when it came to how the other branches do their forms......

but for competition, yeah, if CLF is vs. CLF in competition, do the standardized clf forms to see who is actually of higher skill doing the same form.

[CLFNole]

For competition purposes it really doesn't take people doing the same form to see who is better (at performing a set). Standardization of forms is really only good for one thing at that is just a pure competition concept such as the Olympics, otherwise it is just the creation of another set and CLF has too many to begin with.

[hskwarrior]

Yeah CLF has too many forms as it is.......

Sad thing is that no one wants to learn the others material.......hung sing won't go to chan family, vice versa, same goes for buk sing.

UNLESS!!!!! people were open minded enough to learn all three lineages and promote ONE united CLF........

CHOY LEE FUT is still very clannish............so the fact that CLF has too many sets as it is.......that has no bearing on what each lineage has to teach. Most lineages want to keep their CLF strictly from THEM and THEM alone.......and don't want to go outside their families to get more. so in saying that more clf gets created whether we like it or not. its all about staying pure to what you do.

in a more united CHOY LEE FUT we'd have somewhere close if not over about 500 forms.......but as it is, the way people think will keep CLF students segrated from the entire CLF curriculum. in saying that i mean if a hung sing man went to learn Chan Family Choy Lee Fut he's considered a trader.....or maybe vice versa........

it would be a trip to have a ONE complete up to date list of EVERY SINGLE CLF FORM-be it traditional or modern. I'd like to see what the numbers would be.

But Then, in a standardized type of CLF, I'm sure the number for forms would dramtically drop based on elimination of repetitive techniques or sections. I am one for eliminating things that are repeated too much or we say "we have the same stuff in OUR forms"

[5thBrother]

regarding the original alledged CLF form - Tim white

(although i am enjoying the parralle discussion on a combined clf form which i think would be cool .. kinda like the combined taiji comp. form i guess ... so hope that continues - what would u say are distingushing characteristics unique only to each of the 3 branches? if any?)

anyways regarding original question:

on being questioned about the form:

"Dude, are you for real? What branch of Choy Lay Fut is that supposed to be from? (eg. Buk Sing, Hung Sing, Hung Xiong). Who is your CLF Sifu? and he's Sifu?"

the reply:

"Sir,

It is my understanding that you have background in Choi li Fut...Congratulations on you education.

Just to clarify some issues dealing with the form.

1. To be exact I am not sure what region or family system that form was taken from. I learned that form 30 years ago.

2. My Sifu is Tak Chung Wong, who was a Sr. Disciple of H. B. Un (Deceased) and NG Yiu ,Hong Kong Pak Mei Federation

3. My Sifu learned the form form H.B. Un and passed it down. Now my Sifu was not big on the academics. So some history of the forms we teach are not as critical as you may think.

However, I would like to thank you for your inquirey. No one has ever questioned it before...

As to am I for Real, I am. I deal with violent people every day. Forms are my stress relief and believe me I am for real.


Tim"

Part of me thinks this is BS ... but i guess i can see it.. a CLF form picked up by one of the teachers and becoming bak mei influenced choy lay fut form.... but then i'd poor bak mei also..

h.b Un and ng yiu are famous names but has anyone heard of Tak Chung Wong?

(note: "are you for real" is aussie for like "are u kidding/joking!?"

[fawlung]

For Tim/5th Brother

The way you performed this set in the video.... is that the way you were taught the form by your kung-fu teacher??

[5thBrother]

I (5thBrother) am NOT Tim .. just to be clear.

and yes Tim claims this is the way he "learnt the form from a Tak Chung Wong (who was a Sr. Disciple of H. B. Un (Deceased) and NG Yiu ,Hong Kong Pak Mei Federation)"


Thanks

[Shaolindynasty]

that i mean if a hung sing man went to learn Chan Family Choy Lee Fut he's considered a trader

Depends on the motive. Most CLF sifus are friends and have no problem exchanging. For instance a LKH CLF student took one of my sifus seminars at taiji legacy, then the next day they helped us train lion dance.

Now if I start with my sifu then switch at a later date because I am promised some kind of "instructor certification" or "finacial benifit" from someone else that's a different story.

[Pak Mei Man]

The form is Nie Chi something and means Swallow carring the mud or something to that effect. I'm not sure what family it's from. It was taught to Wong Tak Chun by H.B. Un who practiced more than just straight Pak Mei. He was also well versed in several other styles. Wong Tak Chun was student of H.B. Un, Yui Ng, and several others. I've seen the pics H.B. Un and the certification from Yui Ng. Never met him but I know he's for real. Most Pak Mei sifu you'll never here about.

[TenTigers]

HB Un is well known. After looking at it a second time, I can see some Bak Mei-isms in it, but it is still butchered beyond belief. Too much bad kempo influence.
If the practitioner quit his system and imersed himself in Bak Mei, after understanding the system, its form, structure, theories,etc. He might be able to put that form back to its original state. A worthwhile endeavor indeed. (if you get my drift)

[Satori Science]

Depends on the motive. Most CLF sifus are friends and have no problem exchanging. For instance a LKH CLF student took one of my sifus seminars at taiji legacy, then the next day they helped us train lion dance.

Now if I start with my sifu then switch at a later date because I am promised some kind of "instructor certification" or "finacial benifit" from someone else that's a different story.

Exactly,
most of the family politics these days are online. I have friends and mentors who teach hung sing chan fam, hung ga, jow ga and praying manits. I spent the last year traveling and training with different sifus from all over the continent. My sifu supported it 100% and i'v brought home everything i learned and used it to make my take on CLF better. It also made me a way better instructor and a lot humbler.

true there were/are still family politics. but these days those have more to do with personalities and money than anything related to training.

[IronWeasel]

BTW the performer is Paul White "Here is one [above form] that I
took 1st place with at the East Coast invitational.

That form took first place?!?!?!?

[dc_jowga]

i dont know, but the GI said it all...

[Steeeve]

Alway be curious of this guy who teach more of one style.......so much time for training.....ARE YOU SERIOUS

probably they dont work and don t pay their tax....WE PAID IT FOR US...

and they do money with YOU....Dont be stupid

Sttteeve