Steve Demasco left USSD?

[SenseiShellie]

that's irrelevant; the point is that since the last time I saw Eng Tak Wah, which was in the early 90's, he was teaching a relatively small number of students in a tiny studio on Bowery; meaning that, for a time, his fortunes as an MA teacher were not too bright, and he was a relatively minor personality in the world of TCMA (largely eclipsed by the shadow of his uncle); TBH, his general rep in that community was less than stellar; then, at some later point in time, he obviously had a bit of a personal renaissance as a teacher by breaking into the ken/mpo world, where he is evidently well regarded and revered as a "Grandmaster"; which was my original point, that he had a personal resurgence in that community; and that was about it, nothing beyond that; why is this difficult for you to understand?

If you go and look at those people's websites, he's not their Grandmaster for Kempo. Their Grandmaster is Professor Kimo. He teaches his own style when you can actually catch him. He really doesn't teach anymore though. The last time I saw him, which was definitely more recent than you have, he wasn't teaching.

fine, but he did teach him at one point; and Demasco evidently thought very highly of him at one point

The fact of the matter is he doesn't now. Plus, Steve DeMasco isn't really teaching Kempo anymore...it's his own thing now.

um, nothing; please indicate where I stated or implied that there is something wrong with that?

I never said that. I was posing a question to you. However, most Shaolin Kempo people look to fill the Kung Fu void in their training by supplementing it with other styles of Kung Fu. However, after a while, they offer it as a SEPARATE program

ok, but the fact is, they are on that list, which basically reinforces my original point, which was that Eng Tak Wah has (or at one point had) become a respected personality within the ken/mpo world; in fact, he must be held in wide esteem in that community if it serves schools to be affiliated in name only

He was respected for his Kung Fu style. This way they can teach Kung Fu as a separate program in their schools. It has nothing to do with Kempo. If you go to the West Coast Martial Arts Academy he also has Wai Hong on there.

[cjurakpt]

of course the ken/mpo and FJP are two different things and ETW is not a ken/mpo GM - obviously that's true; if you go back and read my original post, you will see that I said that within "the ken/mpo world" he is (or was) popular; in other words, he didn't go into the TKD or BJJ community and gain acceptance; he stepped out of the TCMA community where he really wasn't all that big of a deal and found an eager audience in the ken/mpo sphere, which probably saw him in a different light - regardless of what he taught or how that material was absorbed / integrated by those students, they were ken/mpo to begin with;

and so if he's not teaching anymore, ok, whatever; but at least for a while he had been in that arena and was apparently well regarded by at least a number of schools / individuals; the fact is, in the TCMA community, FJP isn't regarded as any more special than any number of similar southern styles - however, if, as you say, one is a ken/mpo student looking to fill a "kung fu void", then it actually fits that bill rather nicely

it's interesting that he's not teaching anymore though - why do you think that is the case?

[SenseiShellie]

of course the ken/mpo and FJP are two different things and ETW is not a ken/mpo GM - obviously that's true; if you go back and read my original post, you will see that I said that within "the ken/mpo world" he is (or was) popular; in other words, he didn't go into the TKD or BJJ community and gain acceptance; he stepped out of the TCMA community where he really wasn't all that big of a deal and found an eager audience in the ken/mpo sphere, which probably saw him in a different light - regardless of what he taught or how that material was absorbed / integrated by those students, they were ken/mpo to begin with;

and so if he's not teaching anymore, ok, whatever; but at least for a while he had been in that arena and was apparently well regarded by at least a number of schools / individuals; the fact is, in the TCMA community, FJP isn't regarded as any more special than any number of similar southern styles - however, if, as you say, one is a ken/mpo student looking to fill a "kung fu void", then it actually fits that bill rather nicely

it's interesting that he's not teaching anymore though - why do you think that is the case?

I just re-read your original post. Sorry...I should learn to read when I don't have a migraine.

Usually the kung fu void is what kempo students are trying to fill.

I have no idea why he doesn't teach anymore. From what I understand, it's only a select few that he'll teach, very speratically, and it's private lesson only. Classes at the school are run by other instructors.

[sk girl]

Heres a school thats affiliated with Grandmaster Tak http://www.georgetownmartialartscenter.com/

They have a 9th degree there Brain Hanson. Is he an ex Fred Villari guy?

[MadamKicksAlot]

No, he's ex ussd. They all are.

[14 Kempo]

No, he's ex ussd. They all are.

Brian Hanson is also listed on the Villari tree ... I would venture to say that if he holds rank above 5th, he would have needed to have come from another organization into USSD, looks like in this case it was from the FV organization. Although certain high ranking persons within the USSD organization claim to have opened the first school in 1968, most of us know that the particular school in question was opened by Nick Cerio and Fred Villari, not the current USSD entity, which came to be in 1988. With that date in mind, any person purely of the current USSD background would have only 20 years under their belt and would probably not hold a 9th dan. In fact, I believe Paul Taylor to be the highest rank underneath GM, that being 8th dan.

Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong ...

[MadamKicksAlot]

Brian Hanson is also listed on the Villari tree ... I would venture to say that if he holds rank above 5th, he would have needed to have come from another organization into USSD, looks like in this case it was from the FV organization. Although certain high ranking persons within the USSD organization claim to have opened the first school in 1968, most of us know that the particular school in question was opened by Nick Cerio and Fred Villari, not the current USSD entity, which came to be in 1988. With that date in mind, any person purely of the current USSD background would have only 20 years under their belt and would probably not hold a 9th dan. In fact, I believe Paul Taylor to be the highest rank underneath GM, that being 8th dan.

Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong ...

Yes, but what I meant was that he was with USSD, and not strictly from Villari's. My explaination was wrong.

What is the "school in question"?.

[14 Kempo]

Yes, but what I meant was that he was with USSD, and not strictly from Villari's. My explaination was wrong.

What is the "school in question"?.

There was a statement made by GM M at, I believe it was, the Dec 2006 tournament in Irvine, that he opened his first USSD in 1968. I'm not sure where that school was located, but the comment was made. It's a real stretch to make that statement. Yes, the first school named United Studios of Self Defense was opened in 1968, and yes, GM M may have been there, but it wasn't 'his' perse, he may have been a black belt at that time, it was Nick Cerio and Fred Villari's ... maybe I'm wrong, I wasn't there, I don't have all the facts ... I doubt it.

[sun dragon]

There was a statement made by GM M at, I believe it was, the Dec 2006 tournament in Irvine, that he opened his first USSD in 1968. I'm not sure where that school was located, but the comment was made. It's a real stretch to make that statement. Yes, the first school named United Studios of Self Defense was opened in 1968, and yes, GM M may have been there, but it wasn't 'his' perse, he may have been a black belt at that time, it was Nick Cerio and Fred Villari's ... maybe I'm wrong, I wasn't there, I don't have all the facts ... I doubt it.

Hey 14 kempo,

Charles Mattera came into the kempo martial arts in 1971. He said in the state of the arts news letter (20 years ago) that he started under master Larry Mangone.
Who was a brown belt at the time. Master Mangone left Pro. Nick Cerio in 71 as a green belt with GM Fred Villari.

So to answer your question GM charles mattera did not have a school in 1968 he was a white belt in 1971.

[14 Kempo]

Hey 14 kempo,

Charles Mattera came into the kempo martial arts in 1971. He said in the state of the arts news letter (20 years ago) that he started under master Larry Mangone.
Who was a brown belt at the time. Master Mangone left Pro. Nick Cerio in 71 as a green belt with GM Fred Villari.

So to answer your question GM charles mattera did not have a school in 1968 he was a white belt in 1971.

Thanks, I didn't have those dates in my head, so it is informative. I wasn't questioning the fact, it was one thing I heard that I knew was not correct and gave me a really bad taste. My understanding was that when M left Cerio with FV, he was an orange belt. I believe it is a story that I heard he tells as to how he was double promoted to blue belt (hearsay on my part). Anyway, I didn't have to facts, so I say the statement was questionable, but believe me, I wasn't questining it, I knew it was a definate stretch if not an outright lie. I say stretch because a "United Studios of Self Defense" was opened in 1968, just not by C.

Thanks again for your input.

[sun dragon]

Thanks, I didn't have those dates in my head, so it is informative. I wasn't questioning the fact, it was one thing I heard that I knew was not correct and gave me a really bad taste. My understanding was that when M left Cerio with FV, he was an orange belt. I believe it is a story that I heard he tells as to how he was double promoted to blue belt (hearsay on my part). Anyway, I didn't have to facts, so I say the statement was questionable, but believe me, I wasn't questining it, I knew it was a definate stretch if not an outright lie. I say stretch because a "United Studios of Self Defense" was opened in 1968, just not by C.

Thanks again for your input.

I've heard this before that he was an orange belt when GM Villari convince mattera to go with him. I did not know if it's true I just based it off the state of the arts news letter I have were mattera say's he started with Larry Mangone who was a brown belt. On Ken Warner web site http://www.evolutionkarate.com/KempoHistory.html
He states Larry was a green belt when he left cerio. So that means when mattera says in the state of the arts news letter that he started with with larry who was a brown belt mattera should have been a white and mattera may have never trained with cerio before 1990.

he could have made the orange beslt story to make him seem like he was one of the first guys.

[mkriii]

Whats the big deal with this USSD crap. Who cares who studied with who and when. As long as you are happy with your training thats all that should matter. This is what brings down martial arts as a whole, all this bickering and politics that are envolved.

[14 Kempo]

Whats the big deal with this USSD crap. Who cares who studied with who and when. As long as you are happy with your training thats all that should matter. This is what brings down martial arts as a whole, all this bickering and politics that are envolved.

Well, I wasn't seeing it as a 'bickering' session, maybe others are ... who knows. You always have the right to not read the posts if you are offended.

[mkriii]

I'm not offended. Hell, I don't even do Kempo. I'm only saying it makes your art as well as martial arts in general look bad. But whatever.

[14 Kempo]

I'm not offended. Hell, I don't even do Kempo. I'm only saying it makes your art as well as martial arts in general look bad. But whatever.

OK, I'll refrain from asking questions or answering any so as not to belittle the martial arts ... enjoy your board ... LOL