Wing chun sparring clip

[kung fu fighter]

Hi all, i came across this clip It could be old news so apologies if it is.
I think its Aaron Baum of CSL/alan orr. Apparently he went down to the boiler room/Carlson Gracie london and asked to spar.
I would personally first like to give props to mr Baum/Alan orr for their promotion of wing chun as a valid fighting style and their apparent willingness to get out and 'mix it up' Comments appreciated but please keep critical comments constructive

LINK

Hey guys!

Having sparred with Former UFC champ Carlos Newton and other high rank grapplers. I can tell you it's suicide to use linear footwork and retracting punches like Aaron did (it's not wing chun theory, therefore not wing chun). And you can forget about sprawling, it only work momentarily until the grappler reverses it, since this is his world. As a wing chun fighter I recommend sticking to what we know best; jamming, sticking, uprooting his structure, while cutting angles constantly (footwork) in order to keep him mentally off timing, so that he doesn't feel comfortable to shoot. A grappler is no different than any other type of fighter in that he still needs his balance in order to execute his strategy. As a wing chun fighter one needs to change his mentality to an attacking one instead of being defensive, go after him by setting him up. Practice good timing and Hit him hard!!!

Navin

[Ultimatewingchun]

Good post from the wing chun perspective, Navin.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hey guys!

Having sparred with Former UFC champ Carlos Newton and other high rank grapplers. I can tell you it's suicide to use linear footwork and retracting punches like Aaron did (it's not wing chun theory, therefore not wing chun). And you can forget about sprawling, it only work momentarily until the grappler reverses it, since this is his world. As a wing chun fighter I recommend sticking to what we know best; jamming, sticking, uprooting his structure, while cutting angles constantly (footwork) in order to keep him mentally off timing, so that he doesn't feel comfortable to shoot. A grappler is no different than any other type of fighter in that he still needs his balance in order to execute his strategy. As a wing chun fighter one needs to change his mentality to an attacking one instead of being defensive, go after him by setting him up. Practice good timing and Hit him hard!!!

Navin

Having have the opportunity to be beaten up by Carlos and Wagnney not to long ago, I can only agree with this part of your post:
" Practice good timing and [B]Hit him hard!!! "

Fact is, when a well trained grappler wants to get you down, you are going down, UNLESS you manage to get in something powerful enough to "ring his bell" and give you the opportunity to finish him off.
And you only get the skills to do that by training and drilling with the highest level guys you can get to.

As for the video clip, our MA have to be tested, a fighter MUST familiarize himself with what he may be facing and the best way to do that is like what was done on this video - go out and test VS the bets you can test on.

[k gledhill]

Hey guys!

Having sparred with Former UFC champ Carlos Newton and other high rank grapplers. I can tell you it's suicide to use linear footwork and retracting punches like Aaron did (it's not wing chun theory, therefore not wing chun). And you can forget about sprawling, it only work momentarily until the grappler reverses it, since this is his world. As a wing chun fighter I recommend sticking to what we know best; jamming, sticking, uprooting his structure, while cutting angles constantly (footwork) in order to keep him mentally off timing, so that he doesn't feel comfortable to shoot. A grappler is no different than any other type of fighter in that he still needs his balance in order to execute his strategy. As a wing chun fighter one needs to change his mentality to an attacking one instead of being defensive, go after him by setting him up. Practice good timing and Hit him hard!!!

Navin

Glad you said it...

[guy b.]

does anyone here seriously think they'd have done better in the same situation?

While I think going to fight or spar the bjj instuctor might be a bit stupid (bjj guys take this seriously and some nasty things have happened), props to Aaron for being willing to test himself and props for then continuing to train with the bjj instructor afterwards. To get better you have to be able to admit where you need to grow, and that means no ego which is a rare thing.

[sanjuro_ronin]

does anyone here seriously think they'd have done better in the same situation?

While I think going to fight or spar the bjj instuctor might be a bit stupid (bjj guys take this seriously and some nasty things have happened), props to Aaron for being willing to test himself and props for then continuing to train with the bjj instructor afterwards. To get better you have to be able to admit where you need to grow, and that means no ego which is a rare thing.

Well said, fact is anyone that wants to test themselves in a grappling situation or VS a grappler has to do it like this, you don't get the same test VS guys in your own gym, not unless that gym caters to high level grapplers.
You have no idead how to handle the shoot of a trained grappler unless you go against a trained grappler and one of the highest level possible.

[t_niehoff]

Having sparred with Former UFC champ Carlos Newton and other high rank grapplers. I can tell you it's suicide to use linear footwork and retracting punches like Aaron did

It's great you've sparred with good guys, but that doesn't make your conclusions sound.

You can see other world class guys use linear footwork and get away with it. You or I could do anything and not get away with it. Why? Becasue it isn't the footwork -- it is the timing. As Alan said, they are on another level (why they are world-class and we're not).

(it's not wing chun theory, therefore not wing chun).

That's the mantra of a theoretician.

From my perspective, there is no "wing chun theory". There is what works for you and what doesn't. The "theory" is mostly the ramblings of people who can't make it work, have some lame ideas on how it should work, and put those ideas into pretentious form.

And you can forget about sprawling, it only work momentarily until the grappler reverses it,

You are looking at it from a "technique" perspective. A technique, the sprawl or anything else, won't and can't deal with a "game". It's like saying the ellbow escape won't work since the groundifghter will adjust to your escape. Of course he will! If your opponent has a takedown game or a ground game, you need a game yourself to deal with it.

since this is his world. As a wing chun fighter I recommend sticking to what we know best; jamming, sticking, uprooting his structure, while cutting angles constantly (footwork) in order to keep him mentally off timing, so that he doesn't feel comfortable to shoot.

The only way to beat skill is with skill.

A grappler is no different than any other type of fighter in that he still needs his balance in order to execute his strategy. As a wing chun fighter one needs to change his mentality to an attacking one instead of being defensive, go after him by setting him up. Practice good timing and Hit him hard!!!

Navin

Fighters who want to take you down will want to have you coming toward them, moving into them. The only way to learn how to move to deal with someone trying to take you down (by shooting) is to set your theories aside and to do it, to work with some really good wrestlers, learn what they are doing, how they setyou up, what they look for, how to read them, etc. WCK will not prepare you to deal with them. Only dealing with them, learning from them, will prepare you to deal with them.

[t_niehoff]

does anyone here seriously think they'd have done better in the same situation?

While I think going to fight or spar the bjj instuctor might be a bit stupid (bjj guys take this seriously and some nasty things have happened), props to Aaron for being willing to test himself and props for then continuing to train with the bjj instructor afterwards. To get better you have to be able to admit where you need to grow, and that means no ego which is a rare thing.

No, most WCK people would do much, much worse!

Like everything else, it comes down to how much quality time you've put in doing it -- sparring with someone good trying to shoot in and take you down. Spend little time doing it and you will have little skill doing it. Regardless of what you think you know.

I experienced the same things Aaron did some years ago. What I've found is that most MMA/BJJ fighters are pretty cool and if you approach them in the right way, with the right attitude -- they'll be happy to show you reality.

[sanjuro_ronin]

No, most WCK people would do much, much worse!

Like everything else, it comes down to how much quality time you've put in doing it -- sparring with someone good trying to shoot in and take you down. Spend little time doing it and you will have little skill doing it. Regardless of what you think you know.

I experienced the same things Aaron did some years ago. What I've found is that most MMA/BJJ fighters are pretty cool and if you approach them in the right way, with the right attitude -- they'll be happy to show you reality.

Actually, if you just go to them and tell them you would like to test your skills VS them, they are very open to it, never know of any that aren't.
Everyone likes a good test.
Be civil, be nice and they will be the same.

[CFT]

In a way Aaron was always going to "fail" no matter what, simply because of the skills difference - not just the striking vs. grappling debate. You can't go along for a "friendly" spar and then hit them hard! You would have to hit them hard enough to knock them out or disable them. It just changes the whole basis of the encounter. I guess this is what Victor was alluding to.

[Wayfaring]

hi guys

yes that is me being taken down at will by leo...ill get him one day..Lol...what you said KPM is true...also you have to bare in mind the level of leos ability to fight, i have skills and have competed and done relatively well but leo is a monster specimen and grappler who has won world titles...there arent many like him around thank god lol...this was also 3 years ago and i had barely started any proper ground fighting training, hence why i went to see leo to improve, and help me he did with a big cookie monster smile on his face...he is a true ronin and warrior..

this is the first time i met him...funny story attached to it as well...a friend who had started to train with him asked if i would like to train with leo, a multiple world jiu jitsiu champion who has grown up with noguera, anderson silva etc...so next`thing im stood outside carlson grace at 6am to train meet and train with him...we walk down into the boiler room which is a proper old school gym...small, smashed to bits etc...leo is asleep in a sleeping bag on the floor...he wakes up,climbs out says hello and asks if i have any gloves...i say yes...and 30 seconds later im sparring with a world champion with mma gloves on...quality...lol

it wasnt full bore just a friendly test of what we could do...it showed me 2 things...firstly there was no ego, no pride no bull****, he didnt know me or what i could do, yet he just wanted to spar straight off...and we immediately forged a respect and friendship...never met a man with so much skill and so much humility...hed drive you nuts being so brazilian in character but always fun to be around...secondly it helped me forge a spirit to fight at any time, anywhere...stop thinking about it, just do it...gloves on and go...

looking at the clip i think you could say i needed to learn how to sprawl..lol..but it showed my weaknesses which is the name of the game..filling the holes...

best

aaron

Good stuff. You can't really tell too much from the clip about Leo Negao's skills other than he has solid takedowns and a tight mount, just because he doesn't have much resistance there. I'm sure he's getting some more resistance from you by now.

There's a few other clips on YouTube of him, like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv_-Qm4sU5U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd5w_fkTJxw

He looks like a very solid competition BJJ BB that trained at Brasa in Brazil. And a solid MMA guy. And from the second clip, looks like he's pretty laid back and fun to train with.

Good stuff.

[aaron baum]

hi guys...

cheers CFT...i wanted to train with leo in the future and learn what he had to give in the way of shooting and grappling etc...i respect him, what hes done and the fact that we were in his school...would you roll with any Wing Chun master first time and try to smash him really hard? If i had hit him hard he may have second thoughts on wanting to teach me, plus he can hit like a mother and why do i want to end up full power sparring with MMA gloves on at 6AM with a beast? i wanted to learn what he had, not stop him showing me what he could do..i caught him with a couple of nice shots, nothing crazy, he acknowledged after that i had power, i acknowledged he could kick my arse and it was all good after....i didnt need to prove i could hurt him to stop him taking me down.....still should of sprawled though!! ah the tree trunk defence strikes again!!

best

aaron

[aaron baum]

hi wayfaring...

cheers...hes real good guy, very funny to be around when hes not ragging you round the gym like a doll...hes got a real good mix of Jiu jitsu plus a strong wrestling flavour as well as being a proper human specimen...killer combo...he's as tough as nails and loves the scrap...many a time ive seen him using electrical gaffer tape to wrap hes head to stop cauli ear...why use a cap when you can use silver tape instead? nutter! lol...

best

aaron

[aaron baum]

by the way...

this was a private video that has been posted without talking to either of us...

[k gledhill]

terence again with the rebuttal mantra