black tiger

[doug maverick]

yeah i know everybody knows i was black tiger i made it known i'm just saying with a new persona comes a new personality i'm trying to stop the bickering whitch people like you and rolls seem to start all the time really could care less what you think about me the fact is you don't know me actually i would like to meet if you don't mind, i'll await your reply before giving a place day and time.

[antoine9891]

Well, sorry I misinterpreted the magazine articles and website info. No need to get all testy about it there guys, a simple note would have sufficed.

Anyway, I'm sorry that you feel a need to get all militant and I certainly didn't intend to stir up any bad feelings.

You guys popped way to fast. Once again, I am not a student of fu jow and never claimed to be. Frankly the politics are to much for me. What I wrote was an interpretation of what I've read. I will check again of course.

anyway, peace.

Kung Lek

I am really just logging on and seeing all of the bad CHI. Black Tiger no matter who is the current or past master is an EFFECTIVE FIGHTING ART. That being said we should show both past and present masters respect. We should also respect each other. I am more concerned with mastering the chi kung, forms and weapons than arguing. We could learn so much from each other... Isnt that what this forum is all about?

[Eddie]

wow. that took you 7 years to reply?

Cool. Maybe in 2015 you will reply to this. Hoepfully by then I'm living as a rock star in hollywood

[Drake]

**** you, Wyatt Earp!! Why can't we get along?!

[Eddie]

huh?!! Sprechen Sie mit mir?

[loquito]

Hey Inquisitor,

Reading the posts regarding authorized Fu-Jow Pai instructors under the late Grandmaster Wong Mon Toy, you say there was only sifu Wai Hong and sifu Paul Eng. However, in Fu-Jow Pai history there is mention of the original 7 disciples of late Grandmaster Wong Mon Toy. I studied and trained with one of those disciples for many years and to my knowledge he, along with others trained and were authorized to teach Fu-Jow Pai from Wong Mon Toy.

Peace,
Michael

[doug maverick]

Wow who brought this thing back from the dead. its from the KFO days. wow

[David Jamieson]

That would be Antoine about a few posts or so up.

lol.

It is so cool when the archive gets searched on the web and somebody gets in a post on a long dead thread.

I love the refreshers and to see my old avatar having discussions. What's even better is that, even though it's been 7 years, I still hold the same view of it. Hey, I still practice Sil Lum Black tiger too!

anyway, Antoine, it behooves us each to take a look at the date on a post before responding.

Now, I still feel the same way about the overall subject on the matter, so, if you wanna discuss the style variations, I can probably give a little more insight now taht I've been working with another Black Tiger guy for about 5 years or so. And he too doesn't have anything to do with Wai Hong's organization and instead comes from China where he studied under the direction of Sifu Wong Cheung and learned his Black tiger style there. It is different from what I was taught, but the Sil Lum elements are there in the training methodologies.

[doug maverick]

and i also feel the same way that there are many defferent version of black tiger, that are unrelated to fu jow pai. man i was a teenager when this post was started. and i remember getting into all kinds of flame wars. thats when flame wars would happen at the drop of a hat. it was like the wild wild west back then.

[diego]

That would be Antoine about a few posts or so up.

lol.

It is so cool when the archive gets searched on the web and somebody gets in a post on a long dead thread.

I love the refreshers and to see my old avatar having discussions. What's even better is that, even though it's been 7 years, I still hold the same view of it. Hey, I still practice Sil Lum Black tiger too!

anyway, Antoine, it behooves us each to take a look at the date on a post before responding.

Now, I still feel the same way about the overall subject on the matter, so, if you wanna discuss the style variations, I can probably give a little more insight now taht I've been working with another Black Tiger guy for about 5 years or so. And he too doesn't have anything to do with Wai Hong's organization and instead comes from China where he studied under the direction of Sifu Wong Cheung and learned his Black tiger style there. It is different from what I was taught, but the Sil Lum elements are there in the training methodologies.

I got some Tiger techniques in the Hop Ga I do...suppossedly Hop Ga shared with Hung Ga and we all know the story of Hung Ga Tiger vs Crane...that's about all I know about the Tiger Gung except I really like it and would def' spend a good ten years under a a professor under the correct circumstance...Lama Fists and Tiger Claws is the ****

Kung Lek, I've heard the name white tiger...read a little blue black tiger book at the library ten years ago...little blue book shows a northern black tiger form I beleive...chinese book!.? What gives Black Tiger its Black flavor?.

[David Jamieson]

The only white tiger we had up in Canada was perpetuated by a guy who has now semi-diefied himself in our western provinces. A real treat of an individual. I think at one time there was a release of his court transcripts here on the forums wherein he more or less explained the method of his fraudulent fabrications under oath.

He still owns a chain of gyms that he calls kungfu training halls, but...well, that's here nor there.

the book you're talking about is likely 'shantung black tiger' and the form in it is more or less basic shaolin drills and not really any sort of meat and potatoes tiger system.

all the stuff in that book is stuff you will find in virtually any kungfu school, all classical arhat boxing stuff pretty much what you would see in the old shaolin wall paintings and such. So it has it's legitimacy in that sense and could be the foundations of a wider system that just isn't gone into with that publication.

the guy I train with now also comes from a Black tiger system that also share shaolin elements but is markedly different from what I was taught as a black tiger system. His version has more CLF flavour with the swinging arms and such while what I was taught was more Hung in flavour with emphasis on root and upper body power.

As for why it's called black tiger? Got me. Could be because of Su Hark Fu's name and an homage despite the differences across time and systems. Could be a cultural thing about naming more esoteric or secret practices as "black". Could be a sect name in a homage way, could be an underground group name in the 300 years rebellion, could be because of the simple principles employed and how that is mapped to black tigers or leopards(panthers), or it could be a little of all of that.

I honestly haven't met anyone who can state for certain 100% what it's about. they can with certainty explain their best understanding and may even 100% believe it in their hearts and minds. But nevertheless, it is not hard to find contradiction to that.

such is life.

[B-Rad]

Well, a black tiger is a tiger with an extremely rare genetic condition (makes them look black or almost black)... maybe it was chosen to seem mysterious

[B-Rad]

A little article on color meanings for Chinese culture:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._meanings.html

Don't know if it's relevant or not, but still kind of interesting meaning

[diego]

The only white tiger we had up in Canada was perpetuated by a guy who has now semi-diefied himself in our western provinces. A real treat of an individual. I think at one time there was a release of his court transcripts here on the forums wherein he more or less explained the method of his fraudulent fabrications under oath.

He still owns a chain of gyms that he calls kungfu training halls, but...well, that's here nor there.

the book you're talking about is likely 'shantung black tiger' and the form in it is more or less basic shaolin drills and not really any sort of meat and potatoes tiger system.

all the stuff in that book is stuff you will find in virtually any kungfu school, all classical arhat boxing stuff pretty much what you would see in the old shaolin wall paintings and such. So it has it's legitimacy in that sense and could be the foundations of a wider system that just isn't gone into with that publication.

the guy I train with now also comes from a Black tiger system that also share shaolin elements but is markedly different from what I was taught as a black tiger system. His version has more CLF flavour with the swinging arms and such while what I was taught was more Hung in flavour with emphasis on root and upper body power.

As for why it's called black tiger? Got me. Could be because of Su Hark Fu's name and an homage despite the differences across time and systems. Could be a cultural thing about naming more esoteric or secret practices as "black". Could be a sect name in a homage way, could be an underground group name in the 300 years rebellion, could be because of the simple principles employed and how that is mapped to black tigers or leopards(panthers), or it could be a little of all of that.

I honestly haven't met anyone who can state for certain 100% what it's about. they can with certainty explain their best understanding and may even 100% believe it in their hearts and minds. But nevertheless, it is not hard to find contradiction to that.

such is life.

Thanks for the info Dave...something to think about.

B-rad thanks for the link.

[CoolHead]

Interesting! The Black Tiger you mentioned- Is it closed fist? Or is this a "claw style?" In Texas claw styles are illegal. Which means those who learned it were taught to run like hell if you were forced to use it. The Black Tiger I have seen features no claw postures, it's a slugger form- you know the one. You mention quite a lineage to Tiger, which makes me think you practice a rare art. Please share some details if you are able; does your school have an integrated conditioning tradition? Do you have any strict rules of stance or movement that makes your style different? What sort of kicks does your style feature? That kinda' thing. I am not one of these argumentative scholars, I am a private doer of dirties.