Wing Chun Knife?

[anerlich]

That's old hat.

Perhaps. A lot of KF is too. So are old blues records, but I still like my Robert Johnson.

If you look at Ray's videos you'll see that you can cause a wound requiring multiple stitches.

I wasn't suggesting that you should treat your credit cards as thermonuclear weapons, or indeed as anything practical, rather that even a fairly innocuous "blade" can do major damage.

People in jail make potentially lethal weapons out of all sorts of things.

So far I've yet to meet someone who has had a dueling kind of knife fight so I'm not sure what the point of the training of some of these systems is.

My instructor has had five knife fights and been cut seven times with scars to show.

Then again, most MAers will never experience a streetfight.

I guess we should all just buy firearms and not bother with these fighting arts at all.

[Museumtech]

"I wasn't suggesting that you should treat your credit cards as thermonuclear weapons, or indeed as anything practical, rather that even a fairly innocuous "blade" can do major damage."

And here I was thinking that you were referring to the serious damage my wife does with her credit card.

Peter

[rogue]

Perhaps. A lot of KF is too. So are old blues records, but I still like my Robert Johnson.

If you look at Ray's videos you'll see that you can cause a wound requiring multiple stitches.


I wasn't suggesting that you should treat your credit cards as thermonuclear weapons, or indeed as anything practical, rather that even a fairly innocuous "blade" can do major damage.

People in jail make potentially lethal weapons out of all sorts of things.

So can people who aren't in jail and it's a excellent skill to have. Something to keep in mind with improvised weapons is plausible deniability in regards to the law.

My instructor has had five knife fights and been cut seven times with scars to show.

Then again, most MAers will never experience a streetfight.

I've been in a few that in the big scheme of things were a joke, but I got two scars for my trouble. Now some of the guys I train with have been in some serious guano and I think they averaged around 3 to 8 seconds per encounter. Now they have some scars, and sometimes they walked away with the weapon that inflicted them. It sounded like the original owners didn't seem to mind.

I guess we should all just buy firearms and not bother with these fighting arts at all.

You might be right. Weird thing is I can carry a big handgun with less legal trouble than I can a big knife. Crazy world.

[Liddel]

I wasn't suggesting that you should treat your credit cards as thermonuclear weapons, or indeed as anything practical, rather that even a fairly innocuous "blade" can do major damage.

Last time i was in the states i came across a little underground store run by some shady character that sold all sorts of different weapons....

In a pile of knives i saw a credit card with a switchblade that flicked out of one edge.....if it wasnt for customs my darkside would have made me purchase it

Now correct me if im wrong but didnt the martial artist of all martial artists, Steven Segal use a credit card blade in one of his many oscar winning movies...... LOL

DREW

[Sihing73]

Now correct me if im wrong but didnt the martial artist of all martial artists, Steven Segal use a credit card blade in one of his many oscar winning movies...... LOLDREW

Hello,

That would be in Glimmer Man where he used that particular item.

[KPM]

Hey Drew!

I dont see BJD relating to knife work myself,

---I don't either. The Drawpoint method I've been talking about has nothing to do with the BJD. The cross-over I see for the BJD methods is in application with a stick. As I noted, the existing system that seems close to me is Serrada.

The BJD to me are swords not knives and have distance(range) timing and angling differences IMO.

----I agree. The blade I would use as "cross-over" with BJD methods would be a large Bowie Knife.

The BJD can deal with many weapons due to the design of the handle, trapping weapons and protecting your grip with the guard is which is not present with any knife ive seen.... so some obvious points to adress if you do want to cross over techs....

---I have made the same observations. The guard makes a big difference in applications. That's why I don't see the BJD methods crossing over directly to stick methods.

Obviously i think you can crossover some stuff, but why not stick with a proven knife method ?

---That's what Blackjack and I have both advocated. But I would say find one that adapts readily to what you already know and don't be afraid to change things around to suit you.

[Phil Redmond]

. . . . . The BJD to me are swords not knives and have distance(range) timing and angling differences IMO. . . .

Actually the BJD are "knives" and are considered to be no different from a kitchen chopper. In fact, Gim (sword), practitioners consider "Do" knives, to be vulgar weapons that lack the status of a true Gim (sword). Hence the name BJD instead of Baat Jahm Gim.

[Liddel]

Actually the BJD are "knives" and are considered to be no different from a kitchen chopper. In fact, Gim (sword), practitioners consider "Do" knives, to be vulgar weapons that lack the status of a true Gim (sword). Hence the name BJD instead of Baat Jahm Gim.

Interesting info Phil.

I guess my POV comes from the way we relate to incoming attacks from other weapons.

Sticking and clashing isn't something i usually associate with knives... i guess its my own misconception, cause i dont have much knowledge of other knife methods

That would be in Glimmer Man where he used that particular item

Ahhh Dave, i knew i wasn't the only one who pi$$ed his money away renting Segal Flicks LOL. Glimmer man's a far cry from the "Nico above the Law" Days

DREW

[Sihing73]

Ahhh Dave, i knew i wasn't the only one who pi$$ed his money away renting Segal Flicks LOL. Glimmer man's a far cry from the "Nico above the Law" Days DREW

Shhh don't tell anyone that I watch Segal movies. Although in my own defense it is usually on late night T.V. My soon to be ex spent all of my money so I had little to indulge.

FWIW I love the Steven Segal parodies on Mad TV. Especially the one with David Carridine.

[UrBaN]

BJD are mainly used for attribute training. There is a slight resemblance with Filipino machete work. It's very difficult to adapt for knife training.
Drawpoint, I agree, fits perfectly wing chun training. Practical, conceptual, easy.


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http://nikosmartialarts.blogspot.com/

[KPM]

BJD are mainly used for attribute training. There is a slight resemblance with Filipino machete work. It's very difficult to adapt for knife training.
Drawpoint, I agree, fits perfectly wing chun training. Practical, conceptual, easy.


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http://nikosmartialarts.blogspot.com/

Drawpoint fits even better with the Wing Chun Mantis method.

[k gledhill]

The knives have the tactical working idea of the whole system...the techniques are different but the tactical idea is the same. Lin sil di da.

we have different techniques but the same tactical idea . We only fight 1/2 the man .

Isolate and dominate

[bennyvt]

Firstly let me say I am not up to the weapons so I make no claim to knowing it all. So please dont start the, he doesnt know the form so he cant have a say (sorry still a little sore about that point and my posts get deleted.)
But from talking to my teacher he said that there are not really any moves that aren't in the other forms, except the footwork. This is to teach you that normally you will have to pass step (move one foot infront of the other rather then shuffle with empty hands) to make up for the wieght of the knives and to add power into the strike. It also introduces a more extreme turn of the body which totally gets away from the centre to ensure you get away from the strike. This form also brings in the concept of changing the point that you block. Normally we try to block at the elbow as this has more control, if you block at the elbow against another weapon ( or an opponent much larger with longer arms) you will get hit and at worse you may actually give the strike more power as your block becomes the falcrum for the motion. This is used empty hand against a weapon. Now the point of contact is the wrist as this will control the weapon.
Were as the pole teaches us that if we have a long weapon that twisting the hands actually makes the weapon go in large archs. Instead of trying to move them with arm movement which is slow and as longer to get thepole but on the centre to defend. This also uses the side stance much like the wrist blocks at the start of biu jee.
So yes if you think of them as just the knives or pole then they are out dated but I was always told that it is to teach you how to use a short weapon and a long weapon which can be anything. Interestingly when I was learning arnis it was much the same. There are only certain things a weapon can do, stab, hook, slash, pin etc and you had to learn how to do all of them so it didnt matter what you picked up you just used the attributes that the weapon has.
Funny story I made myself some wooden tonfa's using my lathe. My friend said that I didnt know how to use them. I said I could just use them like the empty hand moves. He didnt beleive me so I told him to try and hit me with my criket bat (like a baseball bat but has a flat side). I did the tan sao and punch using the tonfa. Problem was that when I did it I forgot the tonfa ends about 5-10 cms after my hand. So when I thought I was pulling up I accidently smashed him in the face, he wasnt happy.

[KPM]

The Wing Chun Butterfly knives are not a short weapon. They are a medium weapon. There is a big difference in using a short tactical folder versus using a what is essentially a short sword. A tactical folder is much more practical in modern society than any just about any other weapon you could choose to train with. While the Butterfly knives can translate directly to the Wing Chun empty hand techniques, that transition is not as easy with a tactical folder. When dealing with a tactical folder in the hands of someone that even half-way knows what they are doing, you have to control the weapon hand. You can't do the Lin sil di da thing and just deflect and strike in. The "Mantis" idea of "crawling up the arm" that I mentioned in the other thread applies very well to controlling the weapon hand of an attacker with a tactical folder as well as using your own tactical folder offensively. A large knife/short sword like the Wing Chun Butterfly knive can pretty much be counted upon to stop someone with a single solid blow. This is not true with a tactical folder. You can stab someone in the torso and they can ignore it and just keep right on coming. With the tactical folder you have to take out and completely control their weapon arm. So it becomes a progressive bridging in from a longer distance.

[k gledhill]

The knives are used to cut and back off to space again for mobility and relative safety.
We dont fight to stick to the guy ...cuts are delivered to the arms /body and we back off.
We dont trade knife blows like pirate fighting on a ship thats the idea behind wait to receive and attack 'en passant' aka while moving to a % friendly flank . What side to counter attack ? are you trained to move instinctively to the attempted stab using tactical
responses with simultaneous cuts /slashes ?

Or attack obvious weakness of technique. drawing the blade back over the head to deliver a big cut etc... being close enough to counter in 1 step...but evasive enough to avoid any wild swings.