Iron Palm/Body training pros and cons

[sanjuro_ronin]

I know Wolff's law as it is indicated for weightlifting. Wolff's law has to do with a loading principle and how that loading principle works to give that specific bone more resistance to that specific type of loading.

That can be tested. Where does it showcase for a fact that slapping a bag full of material does this specific statement-

Now if he mentioned power development and nerve conditioning to pain, that is soemthing I can go with, at least a different discussion anyway.

btw- you do notice I am not saying it does not, but am asking for proof.

I recall it being applicable in explaining why the bones in the feet of barefooted distance runners are denser than those that run with shoes.

Hitting power has almost nothing to do with iron palm conditioning. Look into the physics of how mass works in motion, proper structure alignment, physical conditioning, and don't forget good old genetics.

What will hit harder a 10lb hammer or a 10lb rubber mallet?

[Broken Fist]

Wolf's Law also applies to the increase in leg and foot bone density occuring in runners due to impact on the pavement, or running surface.
Iron Palm is gradually increasing the impact, duration, and striking medium.
Skin and muscle density occurs similarly to how a callous is formed. The mody adapts to stress. Muscle fibers also develop from increasing weight loads, as in weight lifting. Power is increased due to the fact that the strikes are "relaxed," meaning the recruitment of protagonistic muscle groups, and the relaxing of antagonistic muscle groups. Combine that with the proper structures,body movement and you have Quite a synergystic approach.
It's basic physiology, not some Fantasy Island Kung-Fu Movie type nonesense.
If it is kept within these realms, it's really nothing special. It's only when the LARPERS get their mitts on it that it all goes down the tubes.

Nice write up TenTigers!

[Lucas]

I know is I can hit a tree about twice as hard with my right hand as I can with my left hand...

is my right hand genetically superior to my left hand?

or could it be from my habbitual practice of always hitting hard surfaces with my right hand...

[Black Jack II]

What will hit harder a 10lb hammer or a 10lb rubber mallet?

This applies to your hand how.....

Last I checked my hand was made out of meat, skin and bone.

[sanjuro_ronin]

This applies to your hand how.....

Last I checked my hand was made out of meat, skin and bone.

Your hand, not mine.

Seriously, its one of "give" and depth of follow through, things that IP training effects directly.
There is also a "subconcious" effect, knowing that your hand can take more punishment allows you to hit harder ( hold less back).

[Dale Dugas]

OK, I will ask the experts here. Perhaps Mr Dugas can shed some light too.

What are the pros and cons of this type of training? We all know that if not done right it can be a detrement to you. But what other effects can it have short and long term? How does it affect the health of a martial artist overall considering it is done correctly?

There are some very nice pros the number one being you are carrying around a nice weapon that can never be taken from you unless someone hacks your hands off.

Carrying weapons can be illegal in some places and having the ability to defend yourself with your palms is not bad.

Also you will learn to control your mind, your health as well as learn to rid your body of excessive tension and learn to connect through your structure to the ground.

You can double your striking power through this not through hitting the bag, hitting the bag helps to condition the hands but you are learning to move through the correct structure and bring energy from the earth through you into someone else or something(bricks, etc...)

The cons are slight if you train correctly.

My teacher told me the worst thing for him was trying to pick up a paper clip off a freshly waxed linoleum floor. Too me that is what magnets are for.

You have to be careful with your kids, wives/husbands, and pets. You can hurt them without thinking once you have charged/trained your hands.

Let me know if there are any other questions.

[bakxierboxer]

.... Power is increased due to the fact that the strikes are "relaxed," meaning the recruitment of protagonistic muscle groups, and the relaxing of antagonistic muscle groups. Combine that with the proper structures,body movement and you have Quite a synergystic approach.
It's basic physiology.....

Heh!
Somebody finally said it!
That concept has been a MAJOR focus of ALL my TCMA training for "a rather long time" now.

[Black Jack II]

There are some very nice pros the number one being you are carrying around a nice weapon that can never be taken from you unless someone hacks your hands off.

I find comparing iron palm conditioned hands with illegal weapons, or for that matter, any real weapon to be a very serious stretch.

Also you will learn to control your mind, your health as well as learn to rid your body of excessive tension and learn to connect through your structure to the ground.

I see the standard quasi mysticism in here.

You can double your striking power through this not through hitting the bag, hitting the bag helps to condition the hands but you are learning to move through the correct structure and bring energy from the earth through you into someone else or something(bricks, etc...)

Again, zero proof of what doubling your striking power even means. Hitting the heavy bag in my view and that of what seems to be every contact sport athlete on the planet, is the only real way to learn to develop power.

To say that hitting the heavy bag does not use correct structure is false and borders on asianophilism.

You have to be careful with your kids, wives/husbands, and pets. You can hurt them without thinking once you have charged/trained your hands.

Sorry, but man, this comment actually borders on the retarded. Sorry to be so blunt but that has to be a joke.

[Mook Jong]

Sorry, but man, this comment actually borders on the retarded. Sorry to be so blunt but that has to be a joke.

why do you say that? It's like what broken fist said, post 3. He was hitting harder than he realized. It seems like a classic examply of not knowing your own strengths/limits. I'm kinda confused though, are you say IP has no use or that it doesn't necessarily make you hit harder?

[Lucas]

Isnt Pan Qingfu a living iron fist master?

He has a pretty unique life history, he has done a lot of things. Through out it all, he continued his iron fist training....

With the credentials and accomplishments he has, im inclined to believe he continued his training with purpose and knowledge. He far out weighs most of us on here in regards to CMA training and knowledge.

Cons of IF training....Have you seen Pan Qingfu's right hand??? Grotesque.

[bakxierboxer]

Sorry, but man, this comment actually borders on the retarded. Sorry to be so blunt but that has to be a joke.

Would you find it "more believable" if I said that the conditioning "resets the default level of contact" that the conditioned limb uses for "a touch"?
This means that the "instinctive" touch/contact changes from a superficial/surface contact to an inch or more past "the surface".
What Dale alludes to is that in certain circumstances you eventually will find it necessary to *consciously control* your touch.
It's a little bit like being "a bull in a China Shop".

[kfman5F]

Bones density does happen. The porous parts of the bone will fill in. Practicing incorrectly will be harmful. I know of one person who developed cataracts. Also internal damage to the organs can occur. Done correctly, to my knowledge, will not have harmful effects. Your hands will increase in thickness without losing dexterity. The main thing is to breathe correctly. Always breathe out when hitting and being relaxed when hitting. Like hitting with dead weight and no force. Very, very important to use Dit Da Jow. Even with correct breathing, etc. this will increase chi and blood circulation for healing while striking.

[Egg fu young]

also my girlfriend complained when I slapped her ass .

She liked it when I did it but then again I'm a Tai Chi guy

[Broken Fist]

She liked it when I did it but then again I'm a Tai Chi guy

That's what you think. It was actually me in disguise!

[Broken Fist]

Black Jack have you ever trained in Iron Palm before? Have you met anyone who has trained this way? Why discredit something simply because some dude in a lab hasn't come out with a report on it?

Test it out for yourself, you can get pretty good results within a month depending on how you train. Not sure if you'll be able to break bricks within that time frame but your striking power will increase and you'll notice that instead of making a huge movement you'll only need half the distance to strike just as hard.

If not thats cool its your opinion and I'm not out to try and change it