How do you explain internal vs external?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Some Chen Taiji:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEbupVWZ6mk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf6cyY0ZZvc

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nothing we do physically is outside the realm of physics as it is applied to biomechanics.
Nothing.

[SPJ]

Some Chen Taiji:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEbupVWZ6mk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf6cyY0ZZvc

kool.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf6cyY0ZZvc

the power is rooted on the feet,

however, the power is centered around dan tian and exploded outward as pointed out.

the will/intent is centered/concentrated on dan tian.

or the will/intent is guarding dan tian.

Yi Shou Dan Tian.

well, Yi and Qi are very difficult to explain.

I guess something has to be done to know, it is not easy to explain with words.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEbupVWZ6mk

very good examples of tai chi principles.

1. you come and I welcome, you go and I send you home. (follow)

2. contact, link, stick and follow, zhan nian lian shui.

3. the power of the opponent is followed in the general direction(1 shun), neutralization (hua) and redirecting (walk or zhou).

----

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSLPDovllXM

One of the finest examples of Jing out there.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

sanjuro_ronin: Excellent clip of Max's work.. i have trained with the Chens, and yep, that was some good internal power.. the point being, that used appropriately, it is almost unobservable.. the internal aspect was most observable in the set-up.. classic uprooting and push, followed by a very well executed kick while the opponent was struggling with position correction.. nice work.

Be well..

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEbupVWZ6mk

very good examples of tai chi principles.

1. you come and I welcome, you go and I send you home. (follow)

2. contact, link, stick and follow, zhan nian lian shui.

3. the power of the opponent is followed in the general direction(1 shun), neutralization (hua) and redirecting (walk or zhou).

----

yes some of the principles do exist in all styles.

I guess Tai Chi may pay more attention to the balance of one's self and that of the opponent.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSLPDovllXM

One of the finest examples of Jing out there.

yes. not only the qi, and power/jin comes out or centered on dan tian.

it also demo total relaxation of all body parts song

and suddenly outburst and tightening fa.

storing or harnessing the power like pulling a bow.

releasing or expressing the power like shooting an arrow.

xu jin ru zhang gong.

fa jin si fang jian.



I will be very tired just with a few fists, and elbows and shoulders.

I won't last long.

I am out of qi pretty soon.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Now, Ajarn Chai:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2MYViouHo

Notice the relaxed power.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Greetings..

sanjuro_ronin: Excellent clip of Max's work.. i have trained with the Chens, and yep, that was some good internal power.. the point being, that used appropriately, it is almost unobservable.. the internal aspect was most observable in the set-up.. classic uprooting and push, followed by a very well executed kick while the opponent was struggling with position correction.. nice work.

Be well..

Yes, his MT is coming along nicely

[Sicilian Tofu M]

So if internal power is core related, but still needs a root, power comes 1st from the ground even if the body moves all at the same time. If not, a internal stylest should be able have the same power floating in space. Hung gar is big on core movement and a strong root, but people concider it external, I think all styles have both just start at diffrent points and work to the other, including the hard/soft thing.

[sanjuro_ronin]

An interesting view:

What is "Internal"?
"Internal" has a number of meanings. At a very basic level "Internal" refers to the particular way in which physical force is generated. This force is produced by skillful use of the whole body in harmony.

In Chen style this force is not only generated from the outer muscles but also from deeper muscle tissue (especially the muscles around the spine, hips and diaphragm) and from the energy that can be stored in the rubber-like elasticity of joint tendons/sinews. With correct alignment and movement this force can be built up in muscle/joint groups and transferred cumlatively around the body. It can be released in powerful or even explosive-like movements of considerable, focused force.

"Brute force", on the other hand, relies simply on outer muscle strength (and often only a few local muscles at that) and is considered "external".

Internal arts take longer to master because joints must be loosened up, seldom used muscles must be strengthened, very subtle body movement skills must be aquired, "involuntary" muscle group movements must gradually come under the control of the mind so that they can be "discharged" at will. The end result of course is greater force for same amount of exhertion.

This Internal/External dichotomy is in fact a sliding continuum and no martial art is purely one or the other. More experienced practicioners of the "External" martial arts will more than likely exhibit a greater use of internal force as the years go by. Conversely the Internal martial arts have some movements that make little use of internal energy and only after many years of dedicated training will the disciples of these Internal martial arts manifest useful internal energy.

Some historians suggest that "internal" refers to those martial arts that are taught privately and thus kept hidden - as was the case with Chen style TaiChi (known only to the families in Chen village until the early 1900s.)

There is also a suggestion (Japanese influence?) of an historic association of the Internal Arts with the ruling classes and care for the body; while the External Arts are associated with "commoners" and indifference to the body. The reason is somewhat pragmatic. Commoners needed to be trained quickly for war by their rulers. Also, the rulers didn't mind too much if these effective fighting systems actually damaged the commoners body's over time because their lives were often considered short and unimportant. The nobles and rulers, on the other hand, had plenty of spare time to learn and practise the more difficult Internal methods which were ultimately superior systems - at both martial art and bodily health levels. The External arts had the better "bang for the buck."

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I think you will all appreciate this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaXLi-hx-9Q&NR=1

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think you will all appreciate this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaXLi-hx-9Q&NR=1

Why?
LOL !