forms for black belt/sash

[sanjuro_ronin]

taiji principles, IMO, compliments any art.

Yep, its actually very hard to find arts that DON'T compliment each other in one way or another.
Many systems that have what it appears to be opposite power generation principles actually compliment themselves as one is in reality the "advanced" version of another.


Dude.

[SoCo KungFu]

Dude...........................................

[David Jamieson]

Dude!!!!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Dude!!!!!!

Dudes !!!!!!!

[zhangxihuan]

i guess it depends on the school. My former school had about 15, (all of which were rather elementary in terms of movements and styles)

my current school you do one excessively long one (around 80 moves or more) for your red belt. then after you do a long empty hand one that has about 100 moves. Then you select one long weapon (usually people pick staff) and either jian or dao (but it has to be an advanced form).

but each school is different. I do think some stuff is VERY repetitive in some schools- to the point of stupidity. Perhaps its just so people can make money, i'm not sure. All I know is at one school i learned some forms rather incorrectly, then went to another one where I learned one form that was very very long and had all the same moves plus more.

[SoCo KungFu]

Dudes !!!!!!!

Duuude

[mawali]

My name is Mark not Dude. But anyways my point of asking this question is this....if you have a form with the basics of your style (kicks, punches, blocks, etc....), a form with intermediate techniques, and a form with advanced techniques....how many more forms do you (style) need? wouldn't it all be repetitive? Wouldn't it all be repetitive? Of course with 5 animal styles you would need a form for each animal style and then maybe 1 or 2 that had a combination of all the techniques in it. But to know 20 or 30 or even 600 forms like some systems claim to know is just rediculous (in my opinion). No need to know that many forms.

megga dittoes!
It depends on which style you study and your own teacher because there is no standard curriculum in CMA. Depending on how you were taught, in CMA it is not that you learn intermediate techniques but you build on the basics and progress to integrate the form and its function.
If you have good instruction in CMA, you could be good enough in 1 year!

[Samurai Jack]

Funny ya'll mention Hsing-i and belts...

A school I trained at briefly considered adopting a belt program, but quickly dismissed the idea.

We all agreed that organizing our system into arbitrary check points like how many forms someone knew would be counterproductive to actually grasping the point of the art. My Sifu put it well when he said, "I could show you how to beat up a black belt with one or two techniques, but that dosen't mean you have gongfu. What are you here to learn?"

[Rapason]

I strongly agree.

I dont think that learning multiple forms or styles that may even seem totally opposite from each other is necessarily counter productive. I think it is all up to the practitioner to understand and realize the essence of the forms they know and how they are to be applied.

If you can maintain the distinctions but realize the complementary aspects of different forms, again realizing and maintaing the essence of each form when practicing or applying it, I dont see a reason why you couldnt learn all the forms in the world!

As far as the Black belts and sashes go, I think they can be fun and all - and hold alot of meaning, but I certainly agree with Samurai Jack's Sifu, they are necessary for developing good gongfu!

Dao-an,

Rapason

[mkriii]

Funny ya'll mention Hsing-i and belts...

A school I trained at briefly considered adopting a belt program, but quickly dismissed the idea.

We all agreed that organizing our system into arbitrary check points like how many forms someone knew would be counterproductive to actually grasping the point of the art. My Sifu put it well when he said, "I could show you how to beat up a black belt with one or two techniques, but that dosen't mean you have gongfu. What are you here to learn?"

How would it be counter productive? Belts are no big deal and have nothing to do with being able to comprehend or retain information. I don't see how your sifu came to this conclusion that belts would be counter productive to grasping the point of the art. Please explain this to me.

[sanjuro_ronin]

How would it be counter productive? Belts are no big deal and have nothing to do with being able to comprehend or retain information. I don't see how your sifu came to this conclusion that belts would be counter productive to grasping the point of the art. Please explain this to me.

I can't speak for his sifu, but I know many teachers in the MA that don't use belts because they see no need and other because they view it as personal growth and progression, and how do you strandardise that with a colour belt?
Most FMA, for example, don't use belts either.

[mkriii]

I can't speak for his sifu, but I know many teachers in the MA that don't use belts because they see no need and other because they view it as personal growth and progression, and how do you strandardise that with a colour belt?
Most FMA, for example, don't use belts either.

I understand that some teachers want to stick to the traditional ways and not use belts or sashes but to say that it will be counter productive, I don't understand that comment.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I understand that some teachers want to stick to the traditional ways and not use belts or sashes but to say that it will be counter productive, I don't understand that comment.

If the goal of a MA is fighting skill, then only that can be the measure.
If the goal is personal growth and development, any standardized symbol is irrelevant and can be viewed as counter-productive to the goal.

Kano probably didn't do anyone a great favour when he made belts popular, though his intentions were good.

[mkriii]

To someone who hasn't studied, the 5 looks linear because of the paths to and fro. But I get where you're coming from as far as where the forces are.

I've never done Hsing I but everyone that I've seen do it, it looks pretty but linear (done in a straight line). My Sifu does Hsing I and it looks linear to me. But like I said I never did Hsing I. I tried a couple classes but just didn't like it. He had me starting out with teaching me the step and punch. From what I remember when you stepped you kinda did a stomp with the front leg. Is that correct?

[tattooedmonk]

Huh? Hsing I is linear? News to me ... Mine's full of spirals.

It's not, it looks linear to the untrained eye. It is done using eliptical movements.