Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[BentMonk]

This sounds interesting...

cs

Dave Randolph has been my SD instructor for 14 years. He introduced me to kettlebells 5 years ago, after he got his RKC cert from Pavel. Dave was one of the first 90 people certified by Pavel. I have had the pleasure of attending one other seminar by, Steve Cotter. I can tell you first hand that both of these guys know their stuff. I think you would enjoy it a great deal.

[BentMonk]

I figured as much. Some people get the idea that because we train in CMA/ Shaolin that we are like everyone else, it is obvious that we are not like everyone else.

Well from the way I walk to nearly everything else in my life, I never have done things like everyone else. I suppose that's why SD suits me so well.

[MasterKiller]

Most schools take stuff from the forms and drill it. That's the traditional method. But if you spend the majority of your time working the form or learning new forms, and only a small portion of your time drilling, then obviously you will be much better at performing than you will be at applying.

[kwaichang]

MK you seem to be much like the government you pass your opinion or laws bases upon the behavior of the few. Not long ago you could get Ma Hwong in a fat burner and the directions were 1-2 pills befor each meal with 8-10 oz of water . well some dummy took 6 and died from a heart attack and the gov banned the substance.so now others miss out , the list goes on and on Watch Boston Legal they touch on alot of things like this. You judge the effectiveness of a martial art by a small percentage of practitioners and feel you are right much like the government , and the many, who believe you know what you are talking about, suffer. But you say many things that are unfounded. I and many who train in TCMA with Forms etc can and do apply what we know we do not train for sport so our sport application is slim , but not non existant.
Question , why dont women compete against men in Pool Tourneys. ?? Pool is not so much power as it is positioning and finesse.!! well just my 2 cents worth I feel rather wordy tonight. Also to set the record straight:: TCMA or TJMA can and is as effective in 1 year as your MMA the venue is different and does not apply so much to sport so the art seems to be less effective. And as I have said the teacher , the student and the Method the TMA is taught is important. So dont judge the many by the few you have experienced. KC

[BM2]

[QUOTE=Golden Tiger;855275]Just wondering, you have sparred most of the "old timers" in and around Lexington. How do you think they would stack up against the "Brownings", who ever they might be. I only ask because you have the knowlege of both, not to put you on the spot or anything.

MKiii trains at 4seasons, the Brownings train there also. I have no "knowledge" other than watching them fight, which they are good. One is 135 lbs and the other 155.
They held the American Fight League non-pro belts. They are in their twenties, don't know how long they have been training but guess that it is less than 5 years.
I know this doesn't answer your question, but what I have seen is the ground fighter wins more often earlier in their training vs a striker in mma. As the training progress, it is the more rounded fighter that will win or as Bruce Lee said something like there are three distances in a fight. Striking, standing grappling and on the ground grappling. The fighter who forces the other fighter to fight at his distance will win more often.

[tattooedmonk]

Most schools take stuff from the forms and drill it. That's the traditional method. But if you spend the majority of your time working the form or learning new forms, and only a small portion of your time drilling, then obviously you will be much better at performing than you will be at applying.

This is correct , but do not assume that SD is more forms focused and not application focused just because there are a lot of forms to learn in the curriculum. In the early days of the LA based CSC school we fought and drilled everything long before we learned forms. Forms were an after thought.

Speaking of TMA, Did any of you guys watch GSP destroy Matt Serra? Tonights fights were off the hook!!

[Shaolin Wookie]

But if you spend the majority of your time working the form or learning new forms, and only a small portion of your time drilling, then obviously you will be much better at performing than you will be at applying.

Well, SD has never been accused of that, man...LOL....

I do think we tend to stress variety over specificity, but performance really seems to be the only thing to take a hit. It depends on the school and the focus of the teacher. Luckily, I have a teacher that provides plenty of technique drills and offers great insights when you're ready to hear them.

But I see the value in forms. I'm about to enter into a long period of solo training, so I'm going to work for that incredible speed in my forms with great structure. I'll see what happens. I plan on really getting into the differences in styles and nuances of angles, etc.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Did my first kip up yesterday. It was actually really easy, and I can do them effortlessly now. All I had to do was make sure I straightened my knees when I rolled back and it was easy as pie.........and I laughed because that little knee-jerk reaction was all I needed to do and I could have been doing 'em since day one.

[MasterKiller]

KC/TTM,

Can you guys tell me what an average class you run looks like?

This is what we do, generally.

Circuit warm-ups (10 minutes).

Pummeling (3 to 5 minutes).

Drill applications. One of the coaches demonstrates a technique, everyone partners up and drills it against their opponent about 30%. We go over three or four techniques each class. (25 minutes).

More resistance. If we are striking, at this point we put on protective equipment. We change partners and work the techniques with more resistance (50-60%). I use an interval timer (usually 2 minute rounds) and everyone works until the round is over. (25 minutes).

Live sparring. After a short rest period we run live rounds, using various intervals. If we are striking, we generally run 3 minute rounds. Grappling-only rounds are usually 5 to 6 minutes. Most of time, everyone fights 2 or 3 consecutive rounds in a round-robin rotation, then has to do one round on the heavy bag before they can rest. (25 minutes).

Cool down. Immediately after sparring, we run Tabata or HIIT rounds (5 minutes).

This is vastly different than how a typical TMA program is taught.

[BentMonk]

Most schools take stuff from the forms and drill it. That's the traditional method. But if you spend the majority of your time working the form or learning new forms, and only a small portion of your time drilling, then obviously you will be much better at performing than you will be at applying.

I agree completely. At our club you can have it either way. We have those who are seriously into the practical applications of what they are learning, and those who want the form because they're an interesting aerobic working. A concerted effort is made by our instructors to give equal time to both. It works out pretty well more often than not.

[kwaichang]

A class i would teach has many components dependant upon the # of people I like to have 5,7 , 9 , or 11. That way I can work in too.

a. warm up 10 -15 minutes
b. short forms 1-2 x with emphasis on form/low stances 1st round and then speed
c. forms for the day 3-4x each
d. revove tech train with a partener for application
e. take techniques free drill for student to apply own concept
f. take student concept and refine.
g sparring different types though, Ie: animal ground work allowed, kicking against hand hands against feet , hands against hands etc.
h. punching drills focus mits kicking shield stationary and moving sparring the shield etc.
Cond at end for strength endurance. this w/o cycles and emphasis is placed on students short comings individually KC

[MasterKiller]

A class i would teach has many components dependant upon the # of people I like to have 5,7 , 9 , or 11. That way I can work in too.

a. warm up 10 -15 minutes
b. short forms 1-2 x with emphasis on form/low stances 1st round and then speed
c. forms for the day 3-4x each
d. revove tech train with a partener for application
e. take techniques free drill for student to apply own concept
f. take student concept and refine.
g sparring different types though, Ie: animal ground work allowed, kicking against hand hands against feet , hands against hands etc.
h. punching drills focus mits kicking shield stationary and moving sparring the shield etc.
Cond at end for strength endurance. this w/o cycles and emphasis is placed on students short comings individually KC

How long is a typical class?

How much time do you spend working/teaching forms in an average class?

[kwaichang]

1-2 hours Form time is dependant upon the forms being done and if they know them or not I will admit some forms have more meat than fries. KC

[BM2]

I believe the typical class starts with 10 minutes of warm ups for the upper, core and legs followed by streching. We then did forms for about 20 minutes. We would work some on a new form followed by 5 to 15 minutes of sparring. Class lasted an hour. When we didn't work on new material, we would kick/punch on the sheilds, conditioned, sparred the remaing 30 minutes.
You could look at the schedules of schools and see that three classes are taught at night usually starting at 6 and ending at 9. I usually did two classes and helped my instructor.
Then I met my wife and class time was reduced.

[Judge Pen]

JP...and to whomever else in SD......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge Pen

The elephent in the room is the fact that many people who train in forms do not also drill and train with live resistance. But that's not what my point has ever been about .

MY Question.....Do you train in drills and with live resistance?? Have you always trained in this manner?? Are your drills based on movements taken directly out of your forms??

I do and I have, but it hasn't always been that way. I have done it more since I've moved to Tennessee and started training with the Mullins'. My first teacher was more about conditioning and fighting. Not as much with the drilling of applicaiton.