Question on Lee Koon Hung lineage

[stout]

LKH is an innovator, as it seems that no one seems to know where some of the forms came from. So let's say if LKH modernised some of these forums, does that make them less Hung Sing then the other older Hung Sing forums out there? What if he even made some of them up, does that make it not Hung Sing also? May be you should ask the Hung Sing Gwoon Jeung Mun Yan why, I know I will if I get chance to meet him. Tarm Sam and every other major Buk Sing Master know to man is also listed in Hung Sing Gwoon annuals, so why should LKH be treated any differernt. The LKH standard Hoi Jong where we strike at nose with the palm, I have not seen that in anyother lineage. Chan at this point seems to palm from below to up, Buk Sing seems to strike down too. These forums I have not seen close substitutes:

Sup Jee Ku Da (I have not seen another version like this)
LKH's Siu Miu Fa (LKH made this one world famous)
Leopard Elbow
Tit Jin
Fu Pow (You would normally not see this forum so easily)

Maybe these forms are the most authentic Cheung Yim forms, but who knows as none of this stuff is documented. One thing I know for sure, there aren't any Chan techniques such as "Chan Hueng's Special Fist" in these forums. Other's I don't know, as I haven't learnt them. I started Ping Kuen recently and the bagua footwork is pretty insane, Chan or Hung Sing, it makes me mobile fighting more then one. We hold our Chap choi with thumb all the way back, I don't know other lineages who adovcates that apart from Sifu Frank's Gwoon. The LKH lineage has it's own horse too.

I guess I just have to spend my life learning all three lineages to really know what the hell is going on. But what would that make my kung fu then - good kung fu or just "mixed"?

[Eric Olson]

Whatever the political affiliation is now, many of the forms from LKH line are similar to the Chan Family in terms of their sequence.

However, the "flavor" in which they are executed isn't the same as Chan Family.

Then you've got forms like Siu Mui Fah which is totally different from the Chan Family version and Fu-Pow Kuen which I haven't seen in any other school, let alone lineage (which mean it might come from outside of CLF altogether.)

I think LKH's strategy was the same as all good martial artists. Take what works and discard the rest. CLF is definitely at the core but apparently LKH wasn't afraid to bring in other elements if he thought they were useful.

EO

[nospam]

..way too caught up in the forms buddy. They are a tool. Learn them and learn from them. Learn to use what's in them for what they were meant to do.

nospam

[CLFNole]

stout:

For the record the form you called Leopard Elbow is Ping Janhg Kuen (Level Elbow). It is also called Gum Pow Ping Jahng Kuen by some which would be Golden Leopard Level Elbow. In any event it is a Chan Family set, so is the Ping Kuen you are learning, but it really doesn't matter it is slightly different and CLF just the same.

[stout]

Most CLF lineages would have a ping kuen though.

As for Leopard Elbow, have you seen the Chan version? If not it would not surprise me to see a new Chan version on youtube soon LOL

Fu Pow contains contains some advanced fighting techniques, which I haven't seen in the other forms. The L shaped Hung Sing Hoi Jong for here is not just a pretty face to be Hung Sing, it compliments some of the advanced CLF fighting techniques expressed in this form. I can see that same principle in say Buk Sing but they express it differently. Those who know this form inside out, should understand exactly what I mean.

Yes, each form is worth a thousand words and it really depends on the student to see that. LKH curiculum is pretty trad in terms of teachings, so forms are everything in that sense.

[CLFNole]

I have seen about half of the Chan Family version of ping jahng kuen (level elbow) and the beginning sequence is nearly identical. I have also seen a few different people do their ping kuen and it is the same set, the hung sing and buk sing ping kuen is very different not the same form just the same name.

Let me ask you this why would our (LKH) version of baat kwa sum kuen have the L-shaped hoi jong, when the rest of the set is almost the same as the Chan version? Hung sing doesn't have the 9 baat kwa sets they are from the Chan Family. I believe the answer is that sifu added the L-shaped hoi jong to dsitinguish our sets that are considered more advanced like fu-pow kuen, fu ying kuen, hok ying kuen, baat kwa sum and baat mo kuen. Most of the sets at one time or another that straight ahead hoi jong which is characteristic of Chan Family.

As far as fu-pow goes I have known this set for about 8 years and the techiques are very good especially the main continuous chop choy section.

[stout]

I don't know, we wouldn't be always having this discussion if there were definite answers to begin with. the whole truth will probably never be known. the way an LKH player play forms is very different to Chan players or anyone else. There are distinct combos trade marked to LKH.

It's really difficult to be so black and white. I don't know much about Chan. It seems that some of Wong Ha's stuff say is pretty different from other Chan stuff. there are common stuff across the various lineages.

[CLFNole]

I am not saying we play the forms the same as the Chan Family people but rather that our forms come from them. We definately have our own flavor and style that I do not question.

[hskwarrior]

sorry to re-hash this, but ive been away.

i can understand if chan koon pak really did use jeung yims hung sing, then i can see how LKH lineage can use the name.

but, there are telltale elements within both buk sing and hung sing that are missing completely within LKH Hoi Jongs and the endings of the forms.

its not just the L shape pattern.

i've been noticing more and more LKH lineages trying to really claim they are the true hung sing.

[CLFNole]

Well not the main headquarters of the lineage.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I do enjoy watching LKH players do their forms. I think it is safe to say that there doesn't seem to be any other line/school that uses the same forms or plays them the same way...would you all agree??

It may be safe to assume that the forms were created by LKH....that is unless non-LKH schools can be found that do the same forms. I dont' know who they may be, but I'm sure LKH had classmates, no? What forms are they doing?? Does anyone have any youtube clips???

Not causing drama, just stating an observation.

[CLFNole]

Most of our sets come from the Chan Family line and I have seen them played and are very similar with the exception of a few moves. A few I have seen include:

Ping Kuen, Ping Jahng Kuen, Baat Kwa Sum Kuen, Hung Jeh Pang, Sheung Garp Dan Tow Kwun

Sifu Chiu Mun On who is a student of Poon Sing does many of our sets with slight differences as well. LKH studied with other sifus which is why we might have some different stuff.

[stout]

check out the CLF player @ 3:40, well I am assuming he is a LKH player

(courtesy of Mr. Satori)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH6d8oGELLs

Anyone know who this player is? Guy was stylin. this will crack me up if he was Chan. Nothing seems Chan to me in this. I can spot two sets of movements that are specific to LKH.

[nospam]

...looks like Chan Gar to me.


nospam

[CLFNole]

Not sure who that guy is but he appeared to be doing Ng Ying Kuen.

I wanted to get back more with Lama's question earlier about our style.

First off the forms were not all created by sifu (I am sure he added a few like many sifus do). When my sifu was younger and my current sifu (Li Siu Hung) was a teenager, there were about 6 different schools that did our style so it really isn't LKH style just maybe he made it well known.

The schools back then were:

Poon Dik's school
So Kam Fook's school
Leung Siu Kuen's school
Leung Sai's school
Chow Bing's school
Fung Kei Biu's school

Poon Dik, So Kam Fook and Leung Siu Kuen were sihing/dai. Leung Sai and Chow Bing were Poon Dik's senior students. I am not sure about Fung Kei Biu, all I know is he was older than Poon Sing (Poon Dik's son). All of the above have long been passed away and there teachings did not really continue on a larger scale. LKH was one of the more prominent ones to come off. There are still some of sifu sisuks alive and I saw them perform at Poon Sing's birthday banquet doing various sets from our lineage siu moi fah, sup gee kow dah, ping chang kuen, etc...

Most people have only seen the primary level forms from our line and not much of the advanced stuff.