Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[brucereiter]

JP,SW & KFJ
I have even reviewed my old 8mm films of this form (circa 1977-1979) with GMS and EML doing the form and I do not see this in the opening ????
OTD

man you gotta share these ... youtube please :-)

[Judge Pen]

JP,SW & KFJ
I have never in my 39 1/2+ years have seen either GMS or EML open up the form with the "wavy" hands B/4 the 3 vertical attacks. I have even reviewed my old 8mm films of this form (circa 1977-1979) with GMS and EML doing the form and I do not see this in the opening ????
OTD

No, you're right. That isn't the way I learned it either.

[Judge Pen]

Your "se meng t'ao lian" is very different. Much more so then your version of Fei Hu.

I understand what you're saying on GMS not correcting forms. You're CSC and they do some of their forms very differently then the "east coast." I know that my teachers in TN do some things in forms a little differently than TX and KY and ATL It appears that GMS affords the senior and elder masters quite a bit of leeway to teach forms based on their own flavor and interpretation. We can argue about why and if that's the way it should be for another 1000 pages, but that's just an observation based upon my 19 1/2 years of experience in this style and what I've seen with my own eyes.

[bodhi warrior]

Hey KFJ, I applaud you having the guts to put yourself out there. With that being said, it's obvious that the CSC group is making some weird changes to their forms. Most obvious is the wavy hands in the tiger and the extra moves added to the tiger and seng mon ta lei.
Here's a written version of them both as I was taught:
Fefuchutung-
1. Step back with rt foot, left hand comes up, right hand makes a small counter clock wise circle back to right side.
2. three horizontal rakes.
3. step forward right foot, pull back left hand and arm break with the right.
4. pull with hands, and knee trap with left leg.
5. round house with right leg.
6. step into a cat with left foot forward, jump straight up and kick with left leg(no double kick).
7. step forward right bow, circle block with right hand, strike forward with right hand, stike back with left at same time.
8. double elbow up, double back fist
9. step up and then back with left foot to a right bow.
10. low back kick with left foot, step down, side kick with right.
11. without setting foot down turn, double front kick starting with right foot.
12. land in a left bow, three horizontal rakes.
13. step forward into right bow, chop to the neck with right hand.
14. rake up with right hand, then grab head and smash to the left knee.
15. step into a reverse bow, right hand blocks to the head, left hand strikes down.
16. shift weight to left bow, left hand blocks to the head, right hand punches down with a yell.
17. step up and bow.
Sorry dont have a vid. I am planning on putting some up. But I hope my written explanation is enough for now. This is how I learned it 20 years ago, and how I still do it to this day.

[Judge Pen]

Hey KFJ, I applaud you having the guts to put yourself out there. With that being said, it's obvious that the CSC group is making some weird changes to their forms. Most obvious is the wavy hands in the tiger and the extra moves added to the tiger and seng mon ta lei.
Here's a written version of them both as I was taught:
Fefuchutung-
1. Step back with rt foot, left hand comes up, right hand makes a small counter clock wise circle back to right side.
2. three horizontal rakes.
3. step forward right foot, pull back left hand and arm break with the right.
4. pull with hands, and knee trap with left leg.
5. round house with right leg.
6. step into a cat with left foot forward, jump straight up and kick with left leg(no double kick).
7. step forward right bow, circle block with right hand, strike forward with right hand, stike back with left at same time.
8. double elbow up, double back fist
9. step up and then back with left foot to a right bow.
10. low back kick with left foot, step down, side kick with right.
11. without setting foot down turn, double front kick starting with right foot.
12. land in a left bow, three horizontal rakes.
13. step forward into right bow, chop to the neck with right hand.
14. rake up with right hand, then grab head and smash to the left knee.
15. step into a reverse bow, right hand blocks to the head, left hand strikes down.
16. shift weight to left bow, left hand blocks to the head, right hand punches down with a yell.
17. step up and bow.
Sorry dont have a vid. I am planning on putting some up. But I hope my written explanation is enough for now. This is how I learned it 20 years ago, and how I still do it to this day.

Your notes are exactly as I was first taught this form.

[kungfujunky]

hey man,

thanks for adding a clip of some of your practice. i cant really comment on the form since i don't know it but if you have any of the internal material on video i would like to see.

ok i will make one comment ... it is good for you to practice in your yard like that on uneven surface with things to trip over and twist your ankle on. in time this will make your stances and stepping very solid. keep that up.
if you do bagua yet do your circle walking practice on a uneven surface like you yard ...

i will be videoing pa kua soon. in the same yard lol

i just want it to be more fluid.

the bird form is exactly as i was taught it. it has excellent application for each move. id be curious to see the version you guys do.

it sounds like the differences in fe hu are so subtle that they could easily have just been misremembered from first learning the form.

[kungfujunky]

Fefuchutung-
1. Step back with rt foot, left hand comes up, right hand makes a small counter clock wise circle back to right side.
2. three horizontal rakes.
3. step forward right foot, pull back left hand and arm break with the right.
4. pull with hands, and knee trap with left leg.
5. round house with right leg.
6. step into a cat with left foot forward, jump straight up and kick with left leg(no double kick).
7. step forward right bow, circle block with right hand, strike forward with right hand, stike back with left at same time.
8. double elbow up, double back fist
9. step up and then back with left foot to a right bow.
10. low back kick with left foot, step down, side kick with right.
11. without setting foot down turn, double front kick starting with right foot.
12. land in a left bow, three horizontal rakes.
13. step forward into right bow, chop to the neck with right hand.
14. rake up with right hand, then grab head and smash to the left knee.
15. step into a reverse bow, right hand blocks to the head, left hand strikes down.
16. shift weight to left bow, left hand blocks to the head, right hand punches down with a yell.
17. step up and bow.


other than line 1 and line 3 they are almost the same. again such minor differences it could very well be my instructor who muffed it.

not sure. but very close none the less.

thx for the notes. im going to try that arm break there and see how that feels

[Old Noob]

Hey KFJ, I applaud you having the guts to put yourself out there. With that being said, it's obvious that the CSC group is making some weird changes to their forms. Most obvious is the wavy hands in the tiger and the extra moves added to the tiger and seng mon ta lei.
Here's a written version of them both as I was taught:
Fefuchutung-
1. Step back with rt foot, left hand comes up, right hand makes a small counter clock wise circle back to right side.
2. three horizontal rakes.
3. step forward right foot, pull back left hand and arm break with the right.
4. pull with hands, and knee trap with left leg.
5. round house with right leg.
6. step into a cat with left foot forward, jump straight up and kick with left leg(no double kick).
7. step forward right bow, circle block with right hand, strike forward with right hand, stike back with left at same time.
8. double elbow up, double back fist
9. step up and then back with left foot to a right bow.
10. low back kick with left foot, step down, side kick with right.
11. without setting foot down turn, double front kick starting with right foot.
12. land in a left bow, three horizontal rakes.
13. step forward into right bow, chop to the neck with right hand.
14. rake up with right hand, then grab head and smash to the left knee.
15. step into a reverse bow, right hand blocks to the head, left hand strikes down.
16. shift weight to left bow, left hand blocks to the head, right hand punches down with a yell.
17. step up and bow.
Sorry dont have a vid. I am planning on putting some up. But I hope my written explanation is enough for now. This is how I learned it 20 years ago, and how I still do it to this day.

Yep. This is exactly what I'm getting now. I edited the double front out of my last post. I mis-spoke. I was tought it just as it appears in the quotation. I don't think the differences are that subtle. Up until I saw the elbow/double backfist in the video, I thought I was watching a different tiger form. Maybe the west is changing things a bit. Not a criticism. Just an observation.

[Judge Pen]

i will be videoing pa kua soon. in the same yard lol

i just want it to be more fluid.

the bird form is exactly as i was taught it. it has excellent application for each move. id be curious to see the version you guys do.

it sounds like the differences in fe hu are so subtle that they could easily have just been misremembered from first learning the form.

At lease you didn't put a double-smash in "Se Meng"

[kungfujunky]

hahahaha

i wanted to though

[naja]

i have added se meng t'ao lian


i have almost all of the forms recorded from white to 2nd black so i will be adding them intermittently as we go along

thx for the feedback

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9t0XDan0Ls

Wow, several noticeable differences than how EM Mullins teaches it. I don't think the differences are nessecarily a bad thing, just different.

I'm going to try and get a hold of a camera this week and upload my renditions...

[tattooedmonk]

I'm a yellow and have just had this form for about a month so I'm pretty close to it. We also do not do the hand movements prior to the horizontal rakes. After the rakes, we're in LBS. Then it's:

1. Grab with the forward (Left) hand
2. Step through with right leg and break with an underhand right
3. Using both hands pull as you trap with left leg
4. Right roundhouse kick
5. Transistion/block to cat stance (left foot forward)
6. jumping front kick

Without looking at my notes, that's how I remember it.

ON

So, after you bow you just step backwards w/ the right leg into left forward bs and do the three " horizontal" rips???

[tattooedmonk]

Anyone want to share there application for the beginning of the form, just the first three moves after the bow???

[Judge Pen]

So, after you bow you just step backwards w/ the right leg into left forward bs and do the three " horizontal" rips???

Yes. As you step backwards into Left BS with the Left hand extended in a tiger claw strike.

[tattooedmonk]

Yes. As you step backwards into Left BS with the Left hand extended in a tiger claw strike.

So, as you step back you just strike forward with the left tiger claw ,are you using it as a deflect/block or a direct/ strike?? To the arm chest or face/ jaw??Are you pulling back with the right tiger claw?? Is this the obvious appl. and do you know of a hidden appl.?? I see the move as three different techniques happening in succession, prior to the three rips.