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Originally posted by Young Mantis
Mantisben,
That would not be correct. To my knowledge, we do not use the term deng ta at all. Confining the opponents leg as in using the 7* stance falls under kau fa or locking methods.
YM
Would it be accurate to state the following (in your school)?
Deng Pu (Tun Ta?): Sweeping/displacing opponents leg to throw opponent
Kau Fa: Confining opponents leg to throw opponent
Do you use the term Deng Pu?
I'm just trying to understand the categories of the these 2 types of throws/takedowns. There is a difference conceptually between sweeping your opponents leg, and confining it.
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Mantisben,
Not sure what you are confused about. I stated that we use the term "deng pu" although to be more precise, we say it in Cantonese ("dung pok"), but in this thread I used dengpu to not confuse people.
Kau Fa is not exclusively locking or confining the legs for a takedown. It would be incorrect to define kau fa as just confining the leg for a takedown. Kau means locking, Fa means method. Any locking technique can fall under kau fa whether it involves the arms or legs.
As for your example in Bung Bo, the waist chop or Yiew Jahm is practiced in my school to include the trapping of the leg. If you can pull the opponent off balance enough to effect a throw, then you have a takedown. If you don't, then at least you have kept him from retreating and positioned yourself to deliver the waist chop strike. I can't think of a specific term for the throw that accompanies this type of technique. When we practice this technique, we just refer to it as yiew jahm. I don't think we have a separate category for that type of takedown. It's just an extra plus to that type of technique.
YM
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Young Mantis,
Near the end of beng bu are 3 repeating moves called Tun Ta Shan Feng.
It is the same Ta as in Deng Ta.
Also, one big dif between our schools is that in this move we do the deng ta throw.
Also, when my shrfu returned from studying Tong Bei in Tien Jing they had this same move with the same app we learned and the same drill.
So his conclusion was that this move was from Tong Bei.
Though I have seen other versions from Shandong that do it like the HK 7* version.
Also, the Taiji PM version also doesn't do it like we do it.
So my conclusion is that the way we learn it in Taiwan is somewhat unique.
The earliest version I have seen is the 1964 recording of Su Yuzhang's students. They do it like we do it.
Mantis Ben,
You have described the move I am talking about.
Though retreats might sound logical it is wrong.
The term is Ba Wang Ching Ke.
Ba Wang means tyrant and Ching Ke means to treat someone. Usually to a meal or drink...
So I am the tyrant and I am forcing you against your will to enjoy my "good" hospitality!
Then as you try to get away I "follow" and "send" you on your way with the waist chop
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3 moves Beng Bu
Hi all,
In PRC (all branches), those 3 repeated throws are usually played as Qian Gou Ti (front hook kicks), though the in (sweep/kick) vs out ( hands) , scissoring motion is exactly the same.
B.T
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Hi Brendan,
That is what I meant.
Thanks for the confirmation.
Only in Taiwan is it different, at least from what I have seen.
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Originally posted by Young Mantis Kau Fa is not exclusively locking or confining the legs for a takedown. It would be incorrect to define kau fa as just confining the leg for a takedown. Kau means locking, Fa means method. Any locking technique can fall under kau fa whether it involves the arms or legs.
...When we practice this technique, we just refer to it as yiew jahm. I don't think we have a separate category for that type of takedown. It's just an extra plus to that type of technique.
YM
Thank you for your response. I understand that I may be trying to categorize this technique, when it shouldn't be categorized.
Thanks again!
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Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
Mantis Ben,
You have described the move I am talking about.
Though retreats might sound logical it is wrong.
The term is Ba Wang Ching Ke.
Ba Wang means tyrant and Ching Ke means to treat someone. Usually to a meal or drink...
So I am the tyrant and I am forcing you against your will to enjoy my "good" hospitality!
...
"Tyrant Treats". I like the sound of that. It reminds me of a brute-force type-of-guy forcefully pulling his "unwilling" buddy into a bar for a drink.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise with me, again!
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Return to the Keywords..
This is an oldie but a goodie. Let talk about it again with so of the new bloods on the forum.
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Last edited by seung ga faat; 04-29-2011 at 01:30 AM.
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