Pak Hok vs Choy Lee Fut

[boh]

[jdhowland]

that's a different but ineresting interpretation/application of NiC.

for us, appart from the Qi development aspects, its applied with Qi/Jing to neutralise (especially 'hard') attacks, to counter iron-shirt defenses and then follow thru with nerve point attacks.



[hungmunhingdai],

I checked your previous posts/threads - you didn't start any threads and most of yr posts are obscure one-liners. No personal info? You are just a little (Ozzie) troll, come on, you can do better; go practice somewhere else and when you grow up, then hopefully you can can pretend to equal some of the more renowned and infamous trolls here... and get banned!

Besides, I'm puzzled by your handle, in very bad Cantonese, it translate to "Hung-Brother", are you referring to your sexual prowess or did someone kick you in the goolies?

[boh]

hi Charles

you'll find Sifu Henry 'interesting', he's not your typical venerable Chinese GM, although he's into the mid/late 50's. I'll leave that surprise for you to find out! There is another person you might meet thru Jan, a senior instructor of Sifu Henry, his name is Kjell Knutsson (Swedish). Good friend of mine and we have trained together. He occassionally teaches a class in Copenhagen.

From our GM Chee Kim Thong, he never mentioned the 5 Cranes. From what I can gather it was just one Crane, and as I mentioned before WC, may have predated Southern Shaolin.

The Northern WC, to me is quite a different beast. I (have always) thought its principles are different, from my little knowledge gained from watching YouTube, and (I heard of) its relation(?) to Tung Bui (Northern Ape) now that you mentioned it! The long versus the short strokes, the almost entirely circular vs the circular + linear techniques (of N vs S WC) and different power genaration techniques.

Then from some of you here, I learnt that there are similarities! The NiC, the spiralling Jing from the legs... well live and learn, now I just need to 'touch hands' with a Northern WC guy!

Having said that, let me relate an anectdote that hilights the complexities we have discussed, on the cross fertilization of Trad. Chinese MA during the last century ...

Just today, I met up with a senior Wing Chun (WCh) instructor, and it changed my perception of WCh, as my past experiance with WCh has been the more dominant Hong Kong flavour. This guy was from Vietnam/Hanoi, his lineage was from Fat San (spelling?) and his GM came to Vietnam in the 1930s. As we exchanged display of forms, his looked very different from the HK WCh. In fact looked similar to our NCK and FJWC! He then told us that his GM had 2 teachers, one was of course WCh, but the other was from the Northern 'Internal' Arts (well I have always debated that point/terminolgy but, let's not digress...), and so his WCh had influences of TsingYi, BaGua and TaiJi!

Sure enough when we 'touch hands' I could 'feel' it. He was using the stance rooting of TsingYi, exerting (turning) power from the 'Kua' (pelvis), body movement of TaiJi and hand techniques of WCh (with good elbow control like FJWC) plus the 'heaviness' of TsingYi (not hardness). I was pleasantly surpised! Very different from previous HK WCh that I have touched hands with...

He also said that his WCh forms are influenced by the 5-animal forms of TsingYi (Tiger, Leopard, Snake, Crane, Dragon) and he demonstrated the form.

A wonderful exchange, and its like discovering a 'lost' art! Well its goes to show, if WCh is like this, then the "Many Cranes" scenario could be similar... as its lineage is even older.

[Gru Bianca]

Quentin Fong taught that Needle in Cotton is for practicing kam na simultaneous evading and seizing/pulse attacking drills.

jd

Hi,

I've sent you a PM.

[hungmunhingdai]

[jdhowland]

that's a different but ineresting interpretation/application of NiC.

for us, appart from the Qi development aspects, its applied with Qi/Jing to neutralise (especially 'hard') attacks, to counter iron-shirt defenses and then follow thru with nerve point attacks.



[hungmunhingdai],

I checked your previous posts/threads - you didn't start any threads and most of yr posts are obscure one-liners. No personal info? You are just a little (Ozzie) troll, come on, you can do better; go practice somewhere else and when you grow up, then hopefully you can can pretend to equal some of the more renowned and infamous trolls here... and get banned!

Besides, I'm puzzled by your handle, in very bad Cantonese, it translate to "Hung-Brother", are you referring to your sexual prowess or did someone kick you in the goolies?

First there is the truth and then there is what you are saying

[CharlesDaCosta]

Hi boh

I will be going to Copenhagen the end of next month to help start a Wushu association in Denmark. I hope to meet Jan then.

I have been doing some digging to find stuff on the Crane/Stork style that would have come from the North. I have not found much. This is the closes I could come:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=397WPlZG120

I was taught a lot more kicking, jumping, and standing on one leg. But, then again -- It was my uncle that introduced me to this style. He taught me the basic principles and techniques. Now I am beginning to wounder where did my uncle get it from, since I can't find others teaching it. I needed something new for my finial exam in shaolin Chuan, so my uncle felt I should present it to my teacher. The only credibility I have is that My Shaolin Chuan teacher was please with the stuff and passed me.

The idea of one crane is not uncommon. I have met others that hold a view that the different Cranes are just different Froms in a single system.

The Northern WC, to me is quite a different beast. I (have always) thought its principles are different, from my little knowledge gained from watching YouTube, and (I heard of) its relation(?) to Tung Bui (Northern Ape) now that you mentioned it! The long versus the short strokes, the almost entirely circular vs the circular + linear techniques (of N vs S WC) and different power genaration techniques.

Now don't confuse Northern WC with TWC (PHP) they should be different too.

That WCh guy sounds really interesting.

the "Many Cranes" scenario could be similar... as its lineage is even older.

I agree

[Steeeve]

Well

If so, then yes it is true, "the secrets of kung fu styles are in their forms." And, the connections you presented are being considered true.


The only secret is training training training .....Forms are a good solo training ...for train the endurance some physical attribute and the core of ur style.... but dont teach the reality ....I mean you need to do two men drills and sparring....

[CharlesDaCosta]

The only secret is training training training .....Forms are a good solo training ...for train the endurance some physical attribute and the core of your style.... but don't teach the reality ....I mean you need to do two men drills and sparring....

What you are saying is true. But keep in mind:
Training is no secret, that has been the key to success in every sport. Forms tell you what to train; and often they are a mystery.

[Steeeve]

Charles

Dont know what to said

Forms are just there for solo training......no mystery .....no secret whatever...

And forms teach the mechanist of the style ....

just a anology here ...in music you learne note ...do re mi ....now whatever the style of music you play ....the note are the same ,,,,,,



Steeve

[CharlesDaCosta]

Hi Steeve,

At advance levels in Kungfu teachers present new techniques, not alone but as part of a form. Where there might be 50 new techniques for you to master. These techniques are the secrets of a style. Some teachers don't explain the forms, some do, and for different reasons.

In PHP whole new strategies are hidden in diferent forms. This is the same for most other systems too.

[Steeeve]

Charle l

Let me the time todo a good english writing(text) for response ...about what you said

dont want to be misundersttood.....

Steeve

[CharlesDaCosta]

Charle l

Let me the time todo a good english writing(text) for response ...about what you said

dont want to be misundersttood.....

Steeve

take al the time you need.