one of the better wing chun clips on youtube

[unkokusai]

Of course I can , but I WON'T! .

Yes, of course, that's it.


Where have we heard that kind of empty excuse before...? Something about some kind of somebody competing in somekind of competition or other... so hard to remember...

[paulus]

By the way, it would be nice if you at least attempt to participate in the discussion at hand or otherwise just leave before the moderator gets fed up again!

There's a moderator?

They sure keep a low profile don't they?

[SoCo KungFu]

physiologically, the rationale behind breathing with the dantien (and I assume that the one in question is the lower dantien - there are three - you can "breathe" into all of them, so to speak; in fact, going a bit further, one can even "breathe" down to /with the soles of the feet ) is in order to maximize diaphragmatic excursion during inhalation, since, if one is an upper chest breather, one is using accessory muscles of respiration excessively (scalenes, sternocleidomastoid, upper traps, pecs), and one will actually inhibit the degree to which respiratory diaphragm can contract; this is not uncommon for many people who live in a chronic "stress response" phase; so, for qigong purposes at least, the concept helps shift awareness to where you want RD to go, so to speak;

now, if is one doing "natural" (Buddhist) breathing, then the awareness typically stays in the dantien throughout the entire length of the breath; if one is doing "reverse" (Taoist) breathing, then the awareness travels a bit differently (if one has opened the Microcosmic Orbit, for example, it can follow that pathway);

Hey, glad you jumped in. Hehe I was hoping I could bait you out.

RD first contracts on a relatively stable ribcage, causing the central part, the dome, to descend; this movement is limited by both upward pull of mediastinal elements (stuff in the thorax that attaches to it) and resistance of the abdominal contents below (which will vary depending on if one does "natural" or "reverse" breathing); once the RD has stopped descending, then the central part is stable, so when the fibers contract they are now elevating the mid to lower ribs, expanding the thoracic cavity (the rib movement is triaxial, resulting in a hard to describe but easy to demonstrate motion); also, the external intercostals, braced on a stable thoracic spine, will elevate the ribs; levator costarum and paraspinals are also involved then all the accessories as well (46 muscles in total!);

this is a good general descrption of respiratory biomechanics; this is about ribs specifically
the best pictures are in Kapandji, Physiology of the Joints, Vol. 3

This is why. Thanks for the more detailed description.

I'm surprised a PT was even talking about it, TBH! They barely mentioned anything about this stuff in school, and most PT's are so obsessed with the lumbar vertebrae that they don't even consider how the RD impacts things like low back pain (which is funny, considering how treating RD will often clear up dysfunction of the head, neck, low back, etc.)

Yeah he did though. That wasn't the only topic he covered though interestingly enough, LBP was part of the patients complaint. The PT basically covered posture, some exercises and the breathing as a combined effort to strengthen the core. The patient had some issues and posture was a big part of it and muscles that had not been getting enough use. They had to get the muscles back up to par before they could do anything else otherwise you know...they just gonna find themselves back at the beginning. It took me as a surprise cuz you know how health care is now days. Usually its just do this to fix that, please schedule another appointment for any other issues. He actually took the time to work through everything. Which was nice for me, cuz I was next to see that same PT

[sanjuro_ronin]

physiologically, the rationale behind breathing with the dantien (and I assume that the one in question is the lower dantien - there are three - you can "breathe" into all of them, so to speak; in fact, going a bit further, one can even "breathe" down to /with the soles of the feet ) is in order to maximize diaphragmatic excursion during inhalation, since, if one is an upper chest breather, one is using accessory muscles of respiration excessively (scalenes, sternocleidomastoid, upper traps, pecs), and one will actually inhibit the degree to which respiratory diaphragm can contract; this is not uncommon for many people who live in a chronic "stress response" phase; so, for qigong purposes at least, the concept helps shift awareness to where you want RD to go, so to speak;

now, if is one doing "natural" (Buddhist) breathing, then the awareness typically stays in the dantien throughout the entire length of the breath; if one is doing "reverse" (Taoist) breathing, then the awareness travels a bit differently (if one has opened the Microcosmic Orbit, for example, it can follow that pathway);




RD first contracts on a relatively stable ribcage, causing the central part, the dome, to descend; this movement is limited by both upward pull of mediastinal elements (stuff in the thorax that attaches to it) and resistance of the abdominal contents below (which will vary depending on if one does "natural" or "reverse" breathing); once the RD has stopped descending, then the central part is stable, so when the fibers contract they are now elevating the mid to lower ribs, expanding the thoracic cavity (the rib movement is triaxial, resulting in a hard to describe but easy to demonstrate motion); also, the external intercostals, braced on a stable thoracic spine, will elevate the ribs; levator costarum and paraspinals are also involved then all the accessories as well (46 muscles in total!);

this is a good general descrption of respiratory biomechanics; this is about ribs specifically
the best pictures are in Kapandji, Physiology of the Joints, Vol. 3


never heard this bit about the RD atrophy; I would suggest that the degree of neuronal activation would decrease as opposed to actual atrophy of muscle fibers;


I'm surprised a PT was even talking about it, TBH! They barely mentioned anything about this stuff in school, and most PT's are so obsessed with the lumbar vertebrae that they don't even consider how the RD impacts things like low back pain (which is funny, considering how treating RD will often clear up dysfunction of the head, neck, low back, etc.)

in the mist of crap, you get this gem, which will probably be over looked.

[cjurakpt]

Hey, glad you jumped in. Hehe I was hoping I could bait you out.

curthes - foiled again...

This is why. Thanks for the more detailed description.

de nada; I actually have a whole "presentation" I wrote on it, but it's in semi-outline form, wouldn't try to post it here; PM me an e-mail, I can forward it to you if you want

Yeah he did though. That wasn't the only topic he covered though interestingly enough, LBP was part of the patients complaint. The PT basically covered posture, some exercises and the breathing as a combined effort to strengthen the core. The patient had some issues and posture was a big part of it and muscles that had not been getting enough use. They had to get the muscles back up to par before they could do anything else otherwise you know...they just gonna find themselves back at the beginning. It took me as a surprise cuz you know how health care is now days. Usually its just do this to fix that, please schedule another appointment for any other issues. He actually took the time to work through everything. Which was nice for me, cuz I was next to see that same PT

I guess there are a few out there...

in the mist of crap, you get this gem, which will probably be over looked.

or, more likely, ridiculed as either being jargon or d1ck-waving

[CFT]

cjurakpt, you've covered the bio-mechanical / physiological basis for lower dan tien breathing but can you expand on the "why"?

Is it really more than getting more oxygen into the lungs/blood?

[unkokusai]

Mr. Raciest… Your screen name gives that away…

Because you hate other cultures and races, If they wanted to listen to the kind of stuff you’re talking about, they should go to a MMA forum or a K.K.K rally…

And I find your screen name very offensive, as any person of color should...
.

Ok, try this: Communicate in standard English just long enough to explain what the hell you are talking about, 'cause I have no idea what you are on about now. Really.

[Ali. R]

Just like roaches, turn the light on them and watch them run…


Ali Rahim.

[unkokusai]

That's not much in the way of an explanation of your strange and quite serious charges.

[CFT]

If Mr. Dyslexic (Ali R.) can get off his high horse and fire up Google, he will see that the translation of kokusai means "International". Unkokusai just seems to be a name - the first hit is to a manga movie: "Crayon Shin-chan: Unkokusai no Yabou".

[Mr Punch]

Not that I've finished with the actual discussion on this thread, but since I have no time this evening, just thought I'd chime in: Unko means ****, and kusai means stink. And yes, kokusai means international. Dunno what kukosai is or where Ali got it from or what he's burbling on about.

I'll be back to talk about dantien and breathing and all that crap later.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not that I've finished with the actual discussion on this thread, but since I have no time this evening, just thought I'd chime in: Unko means ****, and kusai means stink. And yes, kokusai means international. Dunno what kukosai is or where Ali got it from or what he's burbling on about.

I'll be back to talk about dantien and breathing and all that crap later.

I think Ali may have mistaken Kuro with Kuko.
Kuro being ONE of the "word" for black.

[unkokusai]

Mr. Punch is correct on the translation.


Still waiting for an explanation of the strange and serious charges.

[Ali. R]

I would like giving my apologies for that miss understanding or confusion…


Ali Rahim.

[t_niehoff]

I know that newbees come here looking for information . . .

Ali Rahim.

Yes, and that's the really, really sad part: if someone comes here looking for genuine information about WCK and/or training all they get for the most part is fantasy, inane theories, hero worship, sifu sez, magical thinking, etc. -- in other words, bullsh1t. WCK bullsh1t. They should consider changing the name of the forum to reflect that so that people looking for WCK bullsh1t will be able to find it more easily.

Sorry to interrupt the bullsh1t, please carry on.