Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[MasterKiller]

"U.S. Housing and Urban Development Secretary Mel Martinez recently announced that his agency has awarded grants to Xavier and Tulane universities as well as ACORN and the city of New Orleans. The money will be spent to remove lead, educate the public about the dangers of lead-based paint and support research."



"The legislature passed two bills designed to help home-buyers get a fair deal on their mortgages. Gov. Tim Pawlenty signed the first bill April 20 and was set to sign the second bill as this issue goes to press.” The article notes, “The legislation was drafted according to recommendations made by a predatory lending study group established by Swanson prior to the legislative session. The study group contained representatives from the banking industry and the mortgage brokers association, as well as consumer advocates from organizations such as Illegal Aid and ACORN."

[Reality_Check]

"Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/wa...n/12fraud.html

"The fiction that Democrats—especially black and Hispanic Democrats—steal elections has gained traction only since 2000. And that fervent belief has rapidly gone from a Bush administration side dish to its main course. This explains last year's firing of at least two U.S. attorneys for their inability to find vote-fraud cases to prosecute, as well as the takeover of the Justice Department's Voting Rights division—which once existed to expand voting rights, rather than constrain them—by myopic vote-fraud crusaders. But evidence of widespread vote fraud just hasn't materialized."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/138537

[1bad65]

Say what you will, but don't forget the indictments and convictions keep piling up.

[Reality_Check]

Would you now care to address the question of John McCain lying about negative campaigning vis a vis lipstick on a pig and sex ed for kindergarteners?

[CLFLPstudent]

Would you now care to address the question of John McCain lying about negative campaigning vis a vis lipstick on a pig and sex ed for kindergarteners?

He won't. He doesn't believe McCain lied using his own wacked sort of logic. However, it seems he hold's Obama to a higher standard than his own candidate...

-David

[1bad65]

Would you now care to address the question of John McCain lying about negative campaigning vis a vis lipstick on a pig and sex ed for kindergarteners?

Fine. Since it is a different question than the Ayres issue, I will.

The lipstick-pig thing I need more info on. I thought it was a bad one liner made by one camp and laughed at by the other. I'm obviously wrong, so fill me in please.

As to the sex ed issue, you may disagree with how McCain characterized Obama's stance, but we all must agree education is a pretty big issue.

[1bad65]

He won't.

I just did. So STFU.

[BoulderDawg]

Ah, but voter registration fraud does not necessarily affect an election. Whereas voter fraud can. Just because Scooby Doo registered to vote, does not mean that a cartoon character will, or even can, vote.

I'm really wondering who will take the cartoon vote this year. I don't know that market very well. Shaggy looks like a liberal to me so I'm guessing he won't vote. I think the Venture Brothers are supporting McCain this year!

[CLFLPstudent]

I just did. So STFU.

LOL you are a real piece!

Your wacked out logic claim's McCain didn't lie about negative campaigning because YOU think the issue is relevant?
Relevance has NOTHING TO DO WITH MCCAIN's LYING!

He claimed at the start to ( and I'll type it slowly for you)

Not....

Run...

A...


Negative...

Campaign.


He is running a negative campaign. Plain and simple. Forget about taxes, that has nothing to do with the question.


He

Is

Running

A

Negative


Campaign


Does that help you?

He lied. Will he lie to us more if he is elected?

Your a real tough guy telling people to STFU over the internet...

You deflector.


-David

[GLW]

1bad simply reveals his ignorance of how agencies like ACORN work.

The truth is that ACORN hires people to work to do the registrations. These people are paid by the hour, are typically NOT people who make a lot of money, and are in a job where they are usually by necessity unsupervised.

Now, the best of them can approach someone to get them registered. Now, if that person wants to be an a$$ about it or is say, a GOP who wants to mess with them, they can take a registration form and fill out Mickey Mouse. Now, once it is done, the LAW requires ACORN to turn that registration in. ACORN flags such bogus registrations but they have still have to turn them in.

Or..you have a lazy person who does nothing...but then fills out a number of bogus registrations themselves. The make up names because they did NOT go door to door or do their job. Again, ACORN flags these forms but still must turn them in.

ACORN also has a record of FIRING such workers. They also have VOLUNTEERED to help the judicial system prosecute the violators...*(hmm...an indictment with their name on it as in "former ACORN employee" The FLAG the bogus ones so the election people know exactly which ones to go to in a raid...not exactly the actions of a group that is trying to pull a fast one.

So...even with these obvious problems the number of bogus registrations is truly small.

So...you now have a small number of bogus registrations...and then you can't use them to vote...if you could there would be more than anecdotal stories about voter fraud.

So, the entire set of stories is an attempt to disparage a system that works fairly well...even with the ILLEGAL antics of the GOP in Nevada, Oregon, and other states. (Such as Colorado where there have been 10's of thousands of LEGITIMATE voters removed silently from the registrations....see the new documentary by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

And why is this happening...well, if you can raise doubts about the foundations of voting, people will be more open to the big fraud...such as voting machines that don't have an audit trail...or the illegal removal of voters from the roles by companies like Choicepoint...or the statement by people like the now Gov. of Florida admitting that there were people denied their right to vote...and that this will be corrected...but to date, very few have made it through the morass of forms and affidavits they require to actually get their LEGAL RIGHT TO VOTE restored.

The info is out there on all of this...but not on Faux news....you actually have to read other sources...and many of them...

And the picture is that there is a much larger concerted effort to disenfranchise LEGAL voters than there ever was any amount of registration fraud ..much less voter fraud.

[1bad65]

Just for a second lets assume GLW is correct and none of this is ACORNs fault. Let's go further and assume they root out every case of a worker falsifying documents and turn them in.

That begs the question: Why then did Obama lie about his ties to ACORN?

[Reality_Check]

Fine. Since it is a different question than the Ayres issue, I will.

The lipstick-pig thing I need more info on. I thought it was a bad one liner made by one camp and laughed at by the other. I'm obviously wrong, so fill me in please.

As to the sex ed issue, you may disagree with how McCain characterized Obama's stance, but we all must agree education is a pretty big issue.

With the lipstick on a pig brouhaha, the McCain campaign claimed the Senator Obama called Governor Palin a pig. They ran ads and made the claim in stump speeches. It most certainly was not viewed as a joke.

The McCain campaign claimed that Barack Obama wanted to teach kindergarteners about sex. Whereas, the bill Senator Obama supported, and voted for, was to educate the children about sexual predators (i.e. the difference between good touching and bad touching). There could be no misunderstanding about what was in the bill. It was a smear plain and simple.

[Reality_Check]

Let's not forget John McCain questioning Barack Obama's patriotism.

"'Apparently Sen. Obama, who does not understand what’s happening in Iraq or fails to acknowledge the success in Iraq, would rather lose a war than lose a campaign.'"

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/200...e-an-election/

That seems fairly negative to me.

[1bad65]

With the lipstick on a pig brouhaha, the McCain campaign claimed the Senator Obama called Governor Palin a pig. They ran ads and made the claim in stump speeches. It most certainly was not viewed as a joke.

Well what did Obama say initially?

The McCain campaign claimed that Barack Obama wanted to teach kindergarteners about sex. Whereas, the bill Senator Obama supported, and voted for, was to educate the children about sexual predators (i.e. the difference between good touching and bad touching). There could be no misunderstanding about what was in the bill. It was a smear plain and simple.

I actually did touch on this earlier. I said you may disagree with how McCain stated Obama's stance, but it was in reference to education. And I consider education a big issue.

[1bad65]

Let's not forget John McCain questioning Barack Obama's patriotism.

"'Apparently Sen. Obama, who does not understand what’s happening in Iraq or fails to acknowledge the success in Iraq, would rather lose a war than lose a campaign.'"

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/200...e-an-election/

That seems fairly negative to me.

That's not a negative shot at him. It's completely the truth. You and Obama may not like it, but it's not nasty campaigning at all.

The Surge worked, and Obama has still refused to admit it did because he was against it from the start.