Is There Any Hope For Traditional Martial Arts

[irontiger1981]

i think tma will stay alive as long as sifus teach the ways, to the right disciples.while stressing to those disciples the importance of the old ways and keeping each lineage pure, but letting modern methods and science to be a part of their training.

[David Jamieson]

Dear lord, could I actually agree with a post by Jamieson

politics and religion? No.

Martial arts? probably more same views than not.

uki, that still isn't explaining anything. what's your point?

[TenTigers]

Yep,take away the ref and the rules,and someone like GSP would be putty in my hands.

[MightyB]

Initially MMA competitions were good in that they helped flush away the Crap. Now the toilet's been refilled with another type of crap... it's kinda green- with partially digested peanuts...

[taai gihk yahn]

Yep,take away the ref and the rules,and someone like GSP would be putty in my hands.

I walked by him on the street the other day and kicked his asz while waiting for the light to change

BTW, if you ever get a chance to do some ground work w/Sensei Debra, seize the opportunity (you may have already for all I know, just sayin')

[notanexit]

I think MMA has opened a lot of eyes and exposed a lot of frauds.The good thing is that you can easily check the credentials of a MMA teacher/trainer.With TMA all you have to do is get some forms and techniques from dvds,put on your pajamas,teach your mimicked moves from the videos,and claim to be a disciple of a chinese teacher.That's what my former mantis instructor did(and still doing).

[TenTigers]

dude, you trained with some guy in his pajamas?
and watched videos?
What, like a sleepover?
That's like training with Micheal Jackson.
That's just so wrong.

[GreenCloudCLF]

OOOOOOOOOH No Ya Don't! Yer not sucking people into this tired old debate and hijacking this thread with seductive little lures like a promiscuous young tart fresh out of Catholic School, showing just a hint of lace and cleavage, as she accidently on purpose bends down to check to see if there;'s a run in her stocking, innocently brushing up against me with her supple yet firm...JUST STOP IT! YA HEAR?!

I went to Catholic High SChool...man I miss those days!

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think that MMA was a great shot in the arm for all those that THOUGHT they were doing MA in a practical way, it showed that the majority of people can't fight their way out of a paper bag, no excuses.
For those in the "know", that whole "no rules" excuse is and was BS, many of us have actually fought no rules, like thew earlier Vale Tudo matches were, and some of us have actually used our MA skills for real, not in La-La land, and those people will tell you that what does work "for real" is what works in the ring:
Speed, power, aggression, basics.

As for TMA, Since I have always viewed MMA as a step "back" to real TMA training, I don't see an issue.
All TMA have to do to "survive" is brace the core principles of MMA training:
Training with a resiting opponent ( alive training, as much as I hate that word)
Training that covers all facets and ranges of a fight, INCLUDING weapons.
Training with the highest caliber people you can find to see just how well you ARE training.

[SimonM]

mma works only with rules... without them it is useless.

Your opinions are largely useless.

[Ray Pina]

First, I can say that the men AND women that I know who compete in MMA are the most grounded, level-headed and modest martial artists that I know. They are that way because they deal in reality daily. They win, they lose and they immediately know why. The reason I love them is that they tend to train hard.

Sure, a lot of them have tattoos or crazy hair. I have a gold nose ring like a bull. This is just because we tend to be younger men, me being an oldie at 34. And of course, it attracts all types. Some deal with the fear of fighting by being loud and talking smack, other are quiet. But these men and women are very dedicated, focused and drenched with the best qualities martial arts can offer.

My view of TMA is not positive. Any combative claiming to be "traditional" is already out of the loop, finished. You can't show up to a modern fight with yesterday's technique. Not only have we all seen it, we know the counter to finish you when you employ such a relic. In the world of competitive BJJ, it's not the finishing technique, it's the set up... for the same reason. Everyone is progressing and hip to it. You have to be cutting edge.

Also, TMA schools promote themselves for the dedication, discipline and integrity they teach.... My God, they're like TD Barnum ringing the register off the suckers they lure in. Discipline? Integrity? Little Johnny gets to stand in front of the class with his black belt or sash, the big shot, without every producing or receiving a bloody nose.

And I know that isn't the point of TMA. And there's more to if than fighting. And no one needs to fight because they have ball crushing and eye popping technique. Yea, everybody has an excuse to avoid putting up.

[naja]

Training with a resiting opponent ( alive training, as much as I hate that word)

The exact reason why I went from Kung Fu to Judo.

Training that covers all facets and ranges of a fight, INCLUDING weapons.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to look into this aspect of training. Yea, I got staff and short stick training at my old kwoon, but I'm interested in knife tactics. Something tells me I'm more likely to run up against a knife than a bo staff......

[MightyB]

I see BJJ as a traditional art - same as Judo is a traditional.

ADCC creator Prof. Nelson Monterio Jr. once said that BJJ is done with a Gi and that sometimes they train without a Gi. True BJJ is a Gi art.

Anyway- I guess my definition of a traditional art is one that specializes in one of the main components of martial arts (Shuai, Na, Ti, Da). It's when they try to claim too much that the problems start- plus bad training is just bad training.

[Ray Pina]

It just goes to show you never know.

Forget everything you know about the Gracies and MMA. Then think about BRAZILIAN Jiu-Jitsu for a moment. I'd run from it. The same way I'd run from Chinese rock n' roll. But nonetheless, these guys have taken a "traditional" art that was all but dead and developed a fierce fighting style. First, because they approached it openly and with realism. And then because they kept it real and put it to the test against all kinds of fighters, first in Brazil and then internationally.

These days I don't care about codes, creeds, histories, patches... I want to train with people who have experience. Forget all this talk about "good" teachers. That's marketing by guys that have none. We're not splitting atoms.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Here is the thing, the term TMA is thrown around way too much.
A Traditional MARTIAL art is one that keeps alive the TRADITION IT WAS DEVELOPED/CREATED in, it has nothing to do with the technical aspect of it.
If a system was created with combat in mind, with practical fighting in mind then, ANYTHING that happens to it that continues that TRADITION is withing of the tradition and as such, continues to make it a TMA.
People tend to look at the TMA that have BECOME impractical and no longer truly focus on "combat effectivness", and they use them as examples of "band TMA" and as such, ANY TMA is the same and therefore, bad.